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Oct

13

“Jill, you ignorant slut” now playing


Take a look at this post, Breaking Down Ann Coulter, Part 1, and please consider contributing to the discussion.

Principle, schminciple – if the topic interests you, and you can see that the folks blogging about it are treating it in an adult way, come on and tell us what you think. (You do know that the words “plain” “dealer” don’t even appear anywhere on the post’s page, don’t you?)

Thanks.  Be the change you want to see and all, you know.

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By Jill Miller Zimon at 10:56 pm October 13th, 2007 in Blogging, Religion 

Comments

16 Responses to ““Jill, you ignorant slut” now playing”

  1. 1 Jeff Hess on October 14th, 2007 12:55 pm

    Shalom Jill,

    As someone who has walked on both sides of the street, I understand that the argument is sincere, but that no matter how Christians may attempt to make their central doctrine — that no one enters the kingdom of heaven unless they have accepted Jesus Christ as their lord and savior — palatable and inclusive, it is what it is.

    Once you understand that; that to a Christian everyone living today is doomed to an eternity of pain and suffering unless they accept that doctrine; then you can understand how someone like Ann Coulter can say what she said with true love in her heart.

    This is no more problematic example of this than in marriages where one spouse is Christian and the other is not. Imagine the trauma of a child, raised as a Christian, who comes to the realization that Mommy, or Daddy, is doomed to hell for all eternity.

    We Jews often compound the problems by our own ignorance of both Judaism and Christianity.

    Every time I hear a Jew use the term “old testament” I cringe. For us there is no Old or New Testaments; there is only the Hebrew Scriptures, the Tanach, and the Christian Scriptures which consists of those books associated the teachings of Jesus added to a reordered and edited version of the Hebrew Scriptures.

    When we allow others to have control of the language of discussion, we’ve lost half the argument.

    B’shalom,

    Jeff

  2. 2 Jill Miller Zimon on October 14th, 2007 2:04 pm

    Thanks, Jeff, for sharing that. What I’d really like to know is – what’s the solution? Do we make ourselves more insular? Do those who wish we’d convert moderate themselves? What?

  3. 3 Jeff Hess on October 15th, 2007 7:10 am

    Shalom Jill,

    There is no way for Christians to moderate themselves. If one of your children was being sucked into a dangerous cult that you knew would result in their abuse, could there be any way for you to moderate your feelings to save them?

    Of course not.

    Because it is dealing with eternity, the Christian imperative is many times more demanding to save everyone from the hell.

    We cannot, without pulling the rug out from under our own spiritual beliefs, ignore this Christian belief. This is Sam Harris’ dilemma for everyone who adheres to a belief system for which there is no supportable evidence.

    The occasional believer (peasch/easter) empowers the moderate believer (weekly/Sunday school) who provides the support for the fanatic.

    There is no way to reject the fanatic without making a hypocrite of yourself.

    So our choice is to either reject all faith systems as superstition or to suffer the condemnation of those whose beliefs are more strident than our own.

    B’shalom,

    Jeff

    B’shalom,

    Jeff

  4. 4 MY COMMENTS… on October 15th, 2007 7:13 am

    [...] “Jill, you ignorant slut” now playing digg_url=”http://havecoffeewillwrite.com/?p=5129″; digg_skin = [...]

  5. 5 Jill Miller Zimon on October 15th, 2007 8:45 pm

    “suffer the condemnation of those whose beliefs are more strident than our own” – yeah, you know, I don’t really have a problem with that. I mean, as you say – what choice do I have? And I cannot let someone else’s ideas of me prevent me from believing as I want to.

  6. 6 Jeff Hess on October 15th, 2007 9:33 pm

    Shalom Jill,

    Except as Jews we have this history thing about people who think of us as unperfected or less than human.

    B’shalom,

    Jeff

  7. 7 Jill Miller Zimon on October 15th, 2007 9:54 pm

    Well, yes there is that. But, stupid though it may be, it seems more likely that people who think that the Messiah will come don’t have a choice but to convert us – killing us kind of breaks some other tenets, doesn’t it? I’m hoping that that has an impact on them?

  8. 8 Jeff Hess on October 16th, 2007 6:42 am

    Shalom Jill,

    Ah, you don’t know about the 144,000?

    That’s all they need to save. They can do what they want with the rest of us since we’re already damed to hell.

    Since their god has already marked us, we’re fair game.

    B’shalom,

    Jeff

  9. 9 MY COMMENTS… on October 16th, 2007 6:45 am

    [...] “Jill, you ignorant slut” now playing 0616 Is your loyalty to news or newsprint? digg_url=”http://havecoffeewillwrite.com/?p=5146″; [...]

  10. 10 TimFerris on October 18th, 2007 3:26 pm

    Jeff, I just have trouble believing that God, or Jesus Christ, could ever be so exclusive, or so exclusionary, as some would like us all to think. I think it’s a non-issue, a non-starter.

  11. 11 Jeff Hess on October 19th, 2007 10:50 am

    Shalom Tim,

    I’d agree except that what we believe is irrelevant. It’s what the christianists believe to be true that just isn’t so.

    They have god, truth and righteousness on their side and us poor unperfected heathens/Jews had better get with the program if we want to avoid hell.

    B’shalom,

    Jeff

  12. 12 TimFerris on October 19th, 2007 2:13 pm

    One of the things we need to come to grips with, each of us, is that we can’t care too much about what other people think. When it comes to a relationship with God, it’s all sort of personal and individualized. Others’ belief systems are theirs, not ours. To spend a whole lot of time and energy on what we probably can’t change directly is not productive, and perhaps ever counterproductive. Change of the sort you’d like to see starts with the individual. It’s my point of view that, if a person has a genuine relationship with God, that person won’t be weighing in in judgment of their fellow man, because they realize that it all comes from within.

  13. 13 Jill Miller Zimon on October 19th, 2007 3:00 pm

    Tim, I completely agree with what you’ve written. It describes what I’ve believed my whole life – and here’s where my astonishment comes in re: Coulter and the failure of others to condemn what she does and how she does it: Where did I get those beliefs? Not only from my religious upbringing, from the behavior of and treatment of me by every single Christian with whom I have a relationship, whether acquaintance of lifelong friend.

    And so, as I tried to explain, I draw from experience the fact that Christians do not in fact act the way people who defend Coulter would have us believe is an acceptable way. Christians in fact act FAR more in line with what you wrote – people who have genuine relationships with God don’t weigh in judgment of their fellow people.

    Where did we lose that respect?? That’s what I want to understand.

  14. 14 Jill Miller Zimon on October 19th, 2007 3:04 pm

    And no Jeff – re: 144K – I didn’t know that – sheesh – where’d they get that number?

  15. 15 Jeff Hess on October 19th, 2007 6:20 pm

    Shalom Jill and Tim,

    First, on the 144,000; from the Apocalypse of John, more commonly called The Book Of Revelations.

    Second, Tim, I’m all for can’t we all get along, but these people are on a mission from god and their willing to kill for it.

    One of the agendas among the christianists is to bring about Armageddon, the final battle, so that they can have their second (or if you’re Mormon, third) coming.

    The stakes are high. On both sides. The slaughter of 11 million (six million Jews and five million mental and physical defectives, gypsies, homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses and others) in the camps would not have been possible without nearly 2,000 years Christian doctrine.

    B’shalom,

    Jeff

  16. 16 Jill Miller Zimon on October 19th, 2007 6:30 pm

    Do you remember when I wrote this post about whether anyone would hide me? It’s from July 30 – 2006.

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