To him, it's part of uniform but it's not what makes him a priest.

Without it, he is still a priest – both in his eyes and in mine – because of his title and how he behaves.

So – the point, for class, was to separate the deeds that demonstrate who or what someone is from the label or symbol identified from it.  In that way, you can assess anyone or anything without automatically imbuing certain characteristics to it.

I would say that that class and that professor in particular really galvanized me against labels etc., but before then I also had been exploring why labels bother me so much.  What he taught was very consistent with what I'd been experiencing and thinking – which is that labels really mess with our heads and independent thinking.

Although maybe worse than that? When you live in a world and try to engage with people who insist on the use and value of labels, be prepared for a long engagement!

I think I understand what your professor was trying to say, but it's rarely 'just a symbol' is it?

PL

I don’t think I knew him but I do remember the name. There are a lot of fathers there.

I loved it there and I really loved most of the professors. my favorite was Fr. Chris Johnson who was either Franciscan or Dominican – I can’t remember anymore. He was in the sociology dept and I often tell the story of how in socio 101, during a lesson on labels, he tore off his collar and stomped all over it. I was in SHOCK. I went up to him after class to tell him how I thought that he couldnt’ do that! And he smiled and said, it’s only a symbol – that’s it.

Pretty radical still I think, huh!? But I believe he is right.

Anyway – in Judaism, first of all, we don't believe that God punishes us per se if we do something that's interpreted as being forbidden, unless it's a sin against God.  I really am NOT well versed in these things – it's a weakness I've sought to correct but I'm extremely far.

Here's some of what I can tell you, for example though:

Keeping kosher? Only makes you closer to Godliness so to speak but it is not a sin to not be kosher from what I understand.

Are you familiar with the 613 mitzvot?  These are the efforts Jews are to make daily, but not making them doesn't mean you have sinned.  Being a Jew, itself, is a continuum.

But the different sects represent, just as with denominations, different interpretations.

I could tell a zillion stories that contradict each other.

For example, in Israel, about 80% of the Jews are not what is called "religious" – religious Jews are, however, what we would call in the U.S. Orthodox.

Now – within the Jews who are Orthodox, they adhere to whatever their rebbes tell them to, for the most part.  They belong to shuls all along whereever they live.

So – some Orthodox women keep their heads shaven and wear black polyester kerchiefs, always.  But my relatives there, with whom I spent a lot of time and who are also Orthodox – they let me eat with them, stay in their home, go to their shul, everything.  But they had brothers and sisters who would not invite me into their home because, as a Reform Jew, I was as good as not Jewish at all.

One of the things that is so nutty to me, for example, is that some Orthodox Jews there say you need to keep eating of milk and meat one hour apart (if you have the meat first).  Some say five hours and some say six hours.

None of this has to do with God – it's all an interpretation of the Old Testament.

I don't keep kosher and I don't expect to and everyone in my shul knows that and many in my shul are the same.  My clergy all keep kosher though and we keep kosher in the shul, of course.  But my son's bar mitzvah party? Not kosher.

Frustrating though it may be to others, in Judaism, it really is ingrained into us to not judge others (I hope Tom has a chance to read this comment, but I'll be happy to write about it elsewhere – it might help a little).

I think I have written about this elsewhere but "loshon hora" or literally "bad tongue" is considered the same as murder in Judaism, and there isn't anything worse than murder.  You cannot be forgiven for murder.

Let me give you an example of this in practice:

I went to interview a few caterers for my son's bar mitzvah.  One is a modern Orthodox guy – very good reputation.  The other is a woman who doesn't keep kosher but also has an excellent reputation and will do kosher, not kosher – whatever.

So – I go to interview them and I ask them both, at the end of each interview, okay – so – you and the other, both have excellent reputations.  If you could tell me one thing that you do that you think gives you an edge over the other, what would it be?

And guess what? Neither one would answer.  They both had almost the EXACT same reaction: they said, look-I can only tell you what we do and how we are the only ones that do this or do that etc.

They absolutely would not say anything about the other one.  And, as I say, one is Modern Orthodox and the other is Reform or Conservtive – I'm not even sure.

Likewise, as I grew up – judging others was just not something you did.  You just did. not. do. it.

So this whole who is better, who is more next to God, who will live life loved, who will go to hell or heaven etc – all in comparison to others?  We just don't do that.

At least, we're not supposed to and our clergy set the example to not do it.

Frankly, in my weaker moments I'm convinced that religion is a sham and we do not need it – i go back to the college debates I had regarding whether religion is a man-made crutch for not so Godly purposes.

When you live in a world where it is perverted and defended in ways that just feel so unnatural or have to be teased and tortured out of the text – I mean, how can that be something any superior being would desire?

I like how you differentiate the notion of recession from giving an opinion on whether someone feels that things are better or worse.  That's a good point.  The only thing is, the more media or anyone (us included) pushes labels and soundbites on people to make things sound the way the politicians or WHOMEVER want people to perceive things, people will spew it back.

Believe it or not, that's one of the reasons I do work so hard at saying, I'm not calling Stark an idiot.  Then, everyone else will feel free to do the same when whether or not he IS an idiot really isn't the issue – the issue is the propriety of what he said and where he said it, and the substance of what he said.  NOT whether he is an idiot or not.

Likewise – I can agree with you that "recession" or not – what matters is how people FEEL they are affected and can or can't get what they think they should be able to and how hard it is to do that.

Look – I'm a social scientist through and through and I will cling to anecdotal evidence long before I will trust numbers.  I'm not saying that is right or wrong, but I trust people more than numbers.  That is me.

Now – you wrote:

"Our Founders' bedrock Christianity (which informs our Founding documents), and MLK's Christian beliefs that drove the civil-rights movement, are just two examples of religious influences that are being airbrushed from our schools' history books. Expression of Christian beliefs in certain college courses is a sure ticket to conflict and/or grade deflation from hostile profs at too many institutions. There's much more."

This concept of religious influences being airbrushed from schools' history books.

I don't know Tom – I am only a few years younger than you – my history books didn't have all kinds of religion in them, at all. But even if what you say is precisely true and true across the board of public schools, our country is far more diverse now than it was when you and I were in elementary or secondary school.  And I interpret our Constitution, Bill of Rights and history to allow for and accommodate and tolerate that increase in diversity.

Holding on to what you had in the face of what will no longer be – that's, ugh – I hate to say it again – delusional and/or desperate.  And it's also what gave rise to people leaving to start the colonies.

Agreed – lots more here.

I could go in and try and figure out where I would think you put breaks – but I could really mess up what you all wrote – more than I might anyways!!

Thanks for putting up with it – I'll try to get to it soon.