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Feb
13
No, not me, but a co-blogger at The Moderate Voice. Here’s the post and here’s an excerpt (the original is even longer):
…Obama’s impassioned supporters [jump] into the fray. Look under any Hillary-friendly or Obama-skeptical blog post by a fellow Dem and you’ll find them there in the comments, getting the gist but missing the point and snapping like crocodiles at any question about the appropriateness of making Obama our candidate before we’ve had more time to get to know him or the media, more time to vet him.
Do you wonder, as I do, how people got the idea that this relative newcomer to national politics has the credentials, experience, and other requisites for cleaning up after George W. Bush? Saying so is a sure recipe, as I’ve found, for getting called a fool, a moron, an idiot, amoral, brain-washed, a Hillary shill, a tool of the Clinton establishment, and a tool.
…
Meanwhile, not one supporter has risen to the challenge of telling me—if I’m stuck with him, I really need to know—what superior or equivalent credentials or experience they can cite to indicate that he is currently better qualified than Hillary to be the Chief Executive of the United States.
Most of them try to lecture me about Hillary—me!—arguing, with a sublime disregard for logic, common sense, or the facts, that her qualifications and experience aren’t any greater than Obama’s, or not enough greater to matter, in light of his ‘charisma’ and his (their faith in him ensures) pure, untarnished record.
Most say they don’t care about credentials or think his credentials are sufficient. They like Obama; and that’s all that matters. I like him too, or till recently I did, but they… they ‘LIKE him like him’, as the kids say. And if you say you don’t, they’re all up in your face, demanding that you step outside so they can administer a moral drubbing.
…
Is he up to the job? Yes, his supporters say. They ‘know’ this because he has inspired them to believe it. Maybe they’re right. But I remain skeptical. But there is a bright side: his ascendancy is apparently pleasing to the Hillary-fearing right-wing pundits. (Obviously, it’s because they too are under Obama’s spell and want him to be president, am I right?)
…
I realize that the ‘conventional wisdom’ is that we’ll turn out to vote for Obama anyway. He and his campaign advisors certainly seem to assume that they’ll have the support of the whole party no matter what they or their ’surrogates’ do or say.
Oh, really? Here’s what Ms. Obama said when she was asked on Good Morning America if she’d vote for Hillary if Hillary got the nomination.
ROBERTS: So what if Senator Clinton defeats [Obama], becoming the first woman nominee. Could you see yourself working to support the first woman nomination?
OBAMA: I’d have to think about that. I’d have to think about that, her policies, her approach, her tone. (The Huffington Post)
Good idea. I’ll have to think equally hard if Obama gets the nomination. Shall I vote for McCain? Nah. But I can stay home. Or I can write in ‘Hillary Clinton.’ After all, I’ve been pretty turned off by the ‘tone’ and ‘approach’ of the Obama campaign.
…
The person who posted that entry concludes by intimating that she believes many Clinton supporters will not be able to vote for Obama and she wants to know what Obama plans on doing to make amends to Clinton supporters.
As I’ve written repeatedly, I will not have a problem voting for whomever is the Dem candidate in the general, but, as I also have written, I’m disappointed with the chiding and childishness of many, many of the Obama supporters who’ve tangled with me. I have a hard time believing that Sen. Obama would be proud of them for what they’ve done in his name. And in order to ensure that he wins the general, I’d urge them, in these next few weeks, to think about their scorched Earth nastiness.
By Jill Miller Zimon at 2:14 pm February 13th, 2008 in Barack Obama, Campaigning, Elections, Hillary Clinton, Politics, WH2008
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55 Responses to “Clinton supporter asks: If Obama wins, then what?”
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Well Jill, I hope you don’t count me in the ‘scorched earth’ category!
Obama wasn’t my first choice – Kucinich was (ok, stop laughing), then Edwards. Since those are no longer available to me come March 4, I had to choose between the two, or, stay home.
I have sincere and serious reservations about Obama for many of the reasons listed by the writer you cited. However, I have many, many more reservations about Hillary Clinton based on her record and previous stances. This is not a johnny-come-lately view of mine. I seriously believe that Hillary Clinton will continue the war unabated based on previous statements and votes. That, to me, is the number one issue. Number two is her comment that she would seize money from people’s paychecks and force them to enroll in a health insurance plan, rather than have the guts to call for what Kucinich called for: Canadian single payer. But check how flush with cash she is from that same industry and it becomes clear who owns her.
We’re hearing much of the same criticisms of Obama that JFK had to deal with when he ran in 1960. I’m not going to say experience is overrated. But all the experience in the world didn’t make LBJ or Nixon great presidents. It all comes down to the people you surround yourself with.
And again, I believe that Obama, despite some soundings to the contrary, has a better chance of beating McCain than Hillary Clinton. I may, indeed, be dead wrong on this, but this is what polling indicates. And I think the McCain people will be far more careful attacking an African-American rather than a woman. Again, I concede I may be dead wrong about that.
Anytime you vote for President, you’re making a leap of faith. I can still remember that young girl holding that sign during a Nixon rally in 1968. Do you remember? The sign said “Bring us together.”
What I remember is how ill-prepared Bill Clinton confessed to feeling the night he won the presidency. “Pray for me,” he said, “I really need it.” And he stumbled out of the gate in the way he handled the “Don’t Kiss Don’t Tell” mess.
Nobody is really prepared until they get in there, is what I think. And I think that a President with good judgment can rely on advisors and staff with good experience.
On the other hand, I’m made uncomfortable by the exccesses of Obama supporters. He inspires zeal, okay, I get that. But I’m seeing too many examples of his supporters making over-the-top attacks on Clinton. She’s not as bad as all that, and he isn’t perfect in the first place. Sheesh. And I’m an Obama supporter, saying that.
Sorry, not “Don’t Kiss Don’t Tell” but that other thing – “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” – my brain is not functioning today.
If you’re going to compare resumes to decide on who you are voting for then you don’t need to worry at all about Billary or Obama’s vetting.
John McCain has three time the resume either of these people have; yet I don’t think that’s of issue for you.
Somehow you’re critical for someone wanting to vote for Obama without proper vetting yet I doubt seriously you’d consider McCain for the same reason.
Is it just me, or does Tim Russo really, really hate women? And is that the real reason he doesn’t support HRC?
obama will be qualified because he will get the most votes, be over 35, and have been born in the US. those are the requirements.
I’m planning to vote Republican in November, so feel free to discount my point of view. However, I find it rather creepy how cult-like much of Sen. Obama’s following seems to be. I’m not claiming any particular originality in that observation–it’s become very easy to find references to the quasi-religious nature of the “Obama movement.” See, for example: “And Obama Wept”, or “Is Barack Obama the Messiah?”, or “Barack Obama’s Messiah Complex”, or “Kool-Aid Backlash: Secularists Find Their Voice”.
Scott Pullins giving commentary on hate. Now that’s funny right there I don’t care who you are.
Good post and good commentary at the end of the post Jill, I’ve found myself in the position of trying to remove myself from the online behavior some of the supporters have evidenced. I tell myself it’s not fair to judge a candidate based on comments made by supporters whether they are Clinton or Obama supporters, yet at times it’s hard because you ask yourself, “Do I really want to be on the same side as some of these people”.
Keith, your posts might be scorchers, but you are almost always thorough – you make it very obvious that you are weighing at least more than one side and often do the Tevye balancing with three hands thing.
I think you make excellent points.
Let me ask you this: People who voted for Bush in 2000 somehow came to believe HIS rhetoric about being a uniter and not a divider. That never came to pass, not ever – and frankly I never expected it to.
Where do you think those voters are in this race? Republicans who’ll go to McCain? Independents who will try again for a uniter in Obama? Independents who feel burned by Bush?
What?
Thanks, Jeff – that’s a very realistic comment – no suprise. (And I knew what you meant re: don’t ask don’t tell – you must have Valentine’s Day on your mind!)
Gordon, you wrote:
“Somehow you’re critical for someone wanting to vote for Obama without proper vetting yet I doubt seriously you’d consider McCain for the same reason.”
But, for me anyway, the issue is not the precise “what” that they’ve all done. Rather, I think of it this way, and I’m ONLY WRITING FOR MYSELF!
Not “all” of any group.
When you have your first kid, every little cough sees many parents running to the books and the phone and doctors office or the pharmacy.
By the third child, they have to be slurping stuff on your boss’s shoes to make you give them medicine.
(Obviously I’m being extreme but I imagine you know what I mean.)
This is to say that only with time, with age, with having experiences under your belt, do you start to build up a knowledge base that helps you diagnose situations and figure out what to do.
I am not concerned as to whether Clinton or McCain has that kind of experience under their belt. I am not familiar with the extent to which Obama has that kind of experience under his belt and I know that there have been articles written about his RELATIVE lack of experience – relative being important.
I would be THRILLED for Obama to offer a laundry list – even though people like Mark Naymik make fun of people who give laundry list or notecard like presentations – that demonstrates that kind of experiential depth.
I am NOT saying he DOESN’T have it – I’m saying, he doesn’t seem to be highlighting it AND, given what this country is facing, I would feel a whole lot more secure in supporting him if I knew more about this aspect.
Jill:
Great question. Are you referring to independent voters who may have believed that? If there were Republicans, I think they’re with Huckabee right now because they feel he’s a good conservative and not the crotchety crank that McCain is. If they were Democrats/swing voters, I think they’re with Obama for the most part. Unless, of course, that particular segment of the population who believed that Bush would be a uniter are now so jaded after eight years that they no longer believe anyone who would claim such a mantle.
I find myself in a strange place in that regard. I want so hard to believe in Obama and what he says. But I’m 45 and have a great memory for history and politics and I keep hearing “Won’t Get Fooled Again” by The Who. I don’t want to be an idiot and land up being gravely disappointed again. Obama has the vision thing – is it another mirage? Is it also too much to expect ANY presidential candidate to unite the American people, especially as polarized as we are now?
In the end, the Republicans really have it easier overall. They will find it very easy to get behind McCain. So much of the criticism of him came from the 100 percenters /purists in the GOP, people who believe a “true conservative” has to have 100 of 100 correct stances on the checklist. Democrats are, of course, guilty of this purity test as well. But I could never understand it with McCain. He’s a warmongering, flag waving, free market loving kind of guy. What more do they want?
In any case, it will be an interesting next few weeks.
Scott – I can’t answer your questions, but I’m glad you are reading and commenting – now, what happened to your Carnival submissions!? Did you send any this week?? I didn’t miss them did I?
“Do you wonder, as I do, how people got the idea that this relative newcomer to national politics has the credentials, experience, and other requisites for cleaning up after George W. Bush?”
My favorite president was a 1-term senator who had less legislative experience than Senator Obama does. He did a fairly good job of cleaning up after an authoritarian predecessor.
Tim – if that’s the threshold, then why don’t we just draw straws?
Anon – I know other people have written the same sentiments as you. But, even though I haven’t looked, there are probably some extreme Hillary groupies out there too, don’t you think?
Thanks, Lisa Renee – a lot of that seems to be getting voiced at this point – and we’re still seven months from Nov. – for whomever is going to be the nominee.
Keith – I’m thinking about anyone in general who expected uniting to happen and sees that it didn’t. Wendy Hoke actually had a very interesting post up that featured something written by someone else and that person was poo-pooing people who said that they’re afraid of being disappointed. But I think it’s a real concern.
This post uses as the false premise that Hillary has some vast amount of experience that Obama does not.
She has held one elected office, she was elected twice to that office period. She has had no other constitutional authority in any thing she has done previously. While Barak Obama has won numerous elections and served many years as a legistlature working, voting and passing bills on the state and now the national level.
Do we wish to count her first lady experience as applicable, ok then does this mean Laura or worse Barbara Bush has qualifications to be President?
I’m tired of exageratted and false claims, this time I’m going for the real deal.
Jill wrote: Anon – I know other people have written the same sentiments as you. But, even though I haven’t looked, there are probably some extreme Hillary groupies out there too, don’t you think?
That may be the case, but Hillary groupies seem (to me) to be less numerous/visible than Obama groupies. It also seems (on admittedly limited evidence) that Sen. Obama tends to attract more True Believers. That may be reflected in the scorched-earth nastiness that you noted above.
Perhaps my assessment of Sen. Obama’s supporters is, in part, a reflection of my impression of him. To my mind, his manner is reminiscent of a smooth-taking televangelist, with the senator preaching from the Gospel of Hope, rather than the Gospel of John.
Jason – I think I’ve seen you reference Harding before – remind again – why is he your fave?
Joe – that’s not accurate. The post that I highlight is talking about why she wants to be won over by Obama if she is really expected to give up Hillary for the sake of the Dems winning in November. She writes about experience as one element that she thinks about as regards these two candidates.
But I have a follow up for you – you wrote that you’re tired of going for exagerrated and false claims – who did you go for before who turned out not to be “the real deal”? Also – what’s convinced you that Obama is the real deal – or are you for McCain?
Anon – I definitely would not go this far at all: “To my mind, his manner is reminiscent of a smooth-taking televangelist, with the senator preaching from the Gospel of Hope, rather than the Gospel of John.”
He has his moments but most politicians have those kind of moments. Huckabee scares me a whole lot more in that vein than Obama.
Many know I was indeed a supporter of John Edwards until he suspended his campaign, though I had written about Obama a few times before the campaign actually began.
I made my decision to support Obama after listening not only to speeches by both he and Hillary watching debates and researching their histories their voting records and their policy statments.
As far as would I support McCain, I havent voted for a Republican for President ever. I won’t this time either, regardless of who our nominee is. But I will continue to work to get who I feel is the best candidate nominated.
Thanks Jill,
My law practice is keeping me pretty busy leaving little time to blog.
“…remind again – why is he your fave?”
Mostly because of his pardons of political prisoners, but there’s more. David T. Beito sums up Harding’s presidency nicely:
Joe – your path sounds like a path that any voter would be well-advised to take. I have to tell you, some of the worst arguments I’ve seen making the rounds, coming from supporters of all candidates, is the argument that if a voter just knew more, then they’d change their mind. I hate that argument because it automatically condescends. The fact is that different people take the same information and put it through their own funnel and like a fingerprint, no two opinions will ever be the same, even if people end up in one of only two different camps. But being in different camps does not per se mean that someone just needs more information.
That wasn’t directed at you – I was just venting.
Scott – glad to hear your livelihood is going well.
Jason – hm – relatively good civil rights record? relatively made me smile, esp. thinking about the ridiculous amount of time being spent on deciding whether waterboarding is torture or not. pfft
Ref: Anon – I definitely would not go this far at all: “To my mind, his manner is reminiscent of a smooth-taking televangelist.
As I continue to follow your blog, I wanted to comment on the above. About a month ago I heard Obama referred to as much like Martin Luther King. When Carolina Kennedy endorsed him be became John Kennedy like…. Last week on a local black radio station who supports Obama referred to him as being like Jesus.
Now tell me thats not something that the american people need to take note of.
Lisa
NC
Lisa, I lean toward your opinion in terms of going overboard, but I’ve written several times about how I really fear the moniker “Rising star” – it’s the kiss of death, or, at the very least, just sets up expectations that may not be able to be met, and not even because of the individual’s limitations but because people can be unreasonable in their expectations of rising stars and then, can be so cruel when their hopes aren’t fulfilled.
Again – a very good friend of mine quoted a piece from a week or two ago that said people who say that they fear being let down by Obama are making excuses that don’t wash. But I think that the fear is real and the need to not overreach is real as well. Look at how lowdown we are right now?
Anyway – thanks for your comment.
Jill,
“But I think that the fear is real and the need to not overreach is real as well”
Well, its definately going to be interesting. All the saint like cliches encouraged by the fans/media has completely turned me off to Obama and he may not be responsive for becoming bigger than life.
Although I support Hillary there are definately days that Hucklbee’s humor is the only one I get.
Lisa
Sorry, I didn’t proof. “Obama may not be responsible of becoming bigger than life.”
Lisa
Lisa – now you are scaring me re: getting Huckabee’s humor – are you saying that you pop squirrel?
:Lisa – now you are scaring me re: getting Huckabee’s humor – are you saying that you pop squirrel? ”
Morning Jill,
Well I wouldn’t go that far.
But there was a time in recent months when Huckabee’s Baptist minister background scared me. Being a transplanted California into the deep south I expect NC might carry him. But with that said, there is something really likable about the man and he doesn’t get on my nerves. There has been lots of talk of there being a divided democratic party over Obama and Clinton. I hope my birthday on March 4th will turn that around as my daughter says she will be forced to vote McCain and I might consider staying home. Now thats heavy.
Lisa
Oh no – don’t let her vote for McCain!
I’ve got a bit of a reputation for blogging about multiple reasons to support or oppose issues that mean a lot to me (it has to really mean a lot and really be in danger of happening to get me to it though). And I expect to do my “57 Reasons” as some know it for whichever Dem gets the nomination. I promise you, after reading my reasons, people do change their minds – not everyone, of course, but I can be pretty persuasive when I have to be.
Hi Jill,
“Oh no – don’t let her vote for McCain!”
Well I don’t figure I have to say anything to her just yet but she is saying that by next week she expects that Obama will walk on water.
I would like to hear some of your “57 reasons” sometime. Personally, I have wanted Hillary as Commander In Chief for the last 15 years. The first year Bill was in office I thought “she was way smarter than him.”
Saw your post on exercise and the heating pad…..Those are two main components of my daily life. Sounds like were two peas in a pod.
Lisa
Lisa – I think many, many of Hillary Clinton’s supporters feel like you do. That’s partly why it’s so insulting when people assume that her supporters must not know anything about HRC, or else they wouldn’t support her.
I’m of the warts and all for every candidate, because there simply isn’t any politician without warts, even the ones that appear to have the highest levels of integrity. The system doesn’t allow for such purity.
Jill,
“I’m of the warts and all for every candidate, because there simply isn’t any politician without warts, even the ones that appear to have the highest levels of integrity.”
Thanks for these observations. Your right on the money. Hillary’s
skeletons are out of the closet for the most part. There is a big difference between integrity and morality. Moral conduct seems to change with the tide. Many anti-Clinton people like to remind us fans of Bill’s sexual endeavors while in the White house. Most of us are old enough to remember how the White house door revolved when John Kennedy lived there and no one batted an eye. Because we continue to evolve in our ideology of what’s moral….. the ground rules continuously change. i.e. Drinking and driving was acceptable behavior 25 years ago. A man beating his wife was his business when it was in his home behind closed doors. Today we legislate these behaviors.
So, like you, the integrity of the individual is important to me knowing that none of us are perfect people. Because Obama is such an unknown his closet has not been revealed yet. The Republican party I am sure are just sitting on the smut, waiting.
Thanks again. Your comments were thought provoking.
Lisa
Well, to be fair now, Lisa (smiling as I write this), I do hope that Sen. Obama doesn’t have too much in the closet – I know he’s mentioned some drug usage in his own writings, but frankly, to most of us Democrats, I don’t think a lot of that is going to matter.
Don’t you think the issue really becomes whether a politician is hypocritical? In other words, when we hear about GOP politicians who preach fidelity and then have extramarital affairs, that’s a problem.
Hi Jill,
Jill said: “I do hope that Sen. Obama doesn’t have too much in the closet – I know he’s mentioned some drug usage in his own writings,”
Actually I have no possible clue to what they (GOP) might have in storage.
But I have continually heard that he is one of the most Liberal people in the Senate so I figure they are just laying and waiting. I
know my mailbox was full of the Muslim associations several weeks ago just to give an example. Being a 60′s hippy girl myself there is not much they could find that would bother me. Actually I dread in some ways hearing it. The race card will probably be played out. In the beginning he was accused of not being black enough by many blacks. No matter what it is, I will hate it and I don’t even like him.
Lisa
Well – I guess we’ll have to wait and see. Maybe somehow his approach to not using negative campaigning will take hold?
“relatively good civil rights record? relatively made me smile…”
Yeah, sadly, that’s not a very high bar. By the way, here’s something else I like about President Harding, from essortment.com:
Jill,
I wanted to throw this out there and get comments from you and your readers.
http://savagepolitics.com/
“Barack Obama may not be a Muslim, and very well be a devout Christian, but ironically this is exactly his problem when he is poised to confront the Islamic world. It is his Islamic religious affiliation, by birth and association, that leaves him vulnerable to the hatred and discredit of our allies and enemies. The United States, by electing a Muslim apostate to it’s highest office, might be leading our civilization down a path that we may not consider a safe one to travel.”
Here is my question. Yesterday I had a neighbor tell me that her biggest worry about Obama being our President was that she was fearful that the movement that surrounds him could actually be generated by our enemies. Because of how easy it is to post from all over the world our thoughts and opinions, couldn’t our enemies do it as well? She went on to say that it would be a way that these other countries could infiltrate our country by having our leader be one of them.
One of the things we talked about, which had surprised me, was to see so many blog/responses from other countries who were interested in our elections. I guess I never really thought about it as I would not be interested to look at other countries political systems. Anyway, I am not into conspiracy things but was surprised by this view.
Lisa
NC
Lisa – I do not share any of those same causes for concern – not even a tiny bit. But then I also don’t view Iran as an imminent threat and I didn’t view Iraq as an imminent threat. Believe me, I’ve seen websites full of rage, anger and nonsense about how Jews control the entire world that scare the s**t out of me. But I believe that those sites represent extreme folks and small numbers. Sure, do people harbor more deep-seated dislike for people not like them? I bet many people do.
But as for this thing about foreign countries etc. and Obama? No – I think that goes way too far.
Believe me – I’m not thrilled with his association with the church he attends. I’ve raised the issue about where is the tipping point – when is it not enough to say that you’ve spoken with the church’s leader and he knows you have a different feeling about certain issues, and when must you say, this leader simply does not represent what I believe?
But from what I know, the nexus between Obama and his church’s leader simply isn’t that tight and we don’t find someone guilty only by association.
Likewise – I’m not concerned about the issue you raise – it’s a red herring, IMO, if not worse.
AHHHH! Jason! Now the real reason comes out.
Thanks Jill.
” But then I also don’t view Iran as an imminent threat and I didn’t view Iraq as an imminent threat.”
I don’t see either of these countries as a big threat either. I was thinking in terms more of any extremous group and how easily they have access to anything in our country. What comes to mind are these two examples from my personal experience. My son’s best friend was from Sri Lanka. Suripethey went to school all through high school and then on to college through some foster family program. I remember he was always sending money home. His family was wealthy by his home standards but not by our standards. I always thought that he was very Americanized because of living here so long but in conversation I learned that he was of one mind and that was to get the best education and return home. He said he was Hindu and belonged to a caste system and he would only marry and have a family there within that system. I also have a Iranian family on my street. The man (30′s something) lived with a pretty blonde Barbie doll for a couple of years and the next thing I knew he moved the girl out and his parents brought over an unknown Iranian girl which he married and they now have 3 kids. So as much as I thought becoming Americanized might change value systems, they don’t. We have so many people living in this country getting training or education (Like the pilots of 911.)that I see how easily they could organize and it not be recognized by us. Anyway,I thought it was an interesting thought.
Lisa
Well – I don’t know, Lisa – the topic probably deserves far more discussion than just this thread and this blog, but again – in our country, we don’t completely encourage of expect people to drop their heritage – we hope that they find a way to integrate the best of both worlds, so to speak. And there are few Americans today who don’t have multiple worlds in their background.
I imagine that we have to work toward having common priorities and when they aren’t common, having laws that enforce behavior that shows respect for the differences. I think that’s part of what makes our country different than say a Pakistan, which had such difficulty tolerating Bhutto.
It’s a fascinating topic – but again, I’m not particularly concerned about it as a threat to the integrity of our country, from a security perspective.
My comment may seem digressive, but I read that recently Rev. Jeremiah Wright of Trinity UCC in Chicago is retiring and Rev. Otis Moss III (yes, of Cleveland) will be at the helm. Not being in that church, I can’t evaluate it by head or heart, but the timing seems significant–even if truly coincidental.
Rev. Moss took the helm a year ago, I think and is the son of the Otis Moss who is still here I believe. Here’s a great post on the church and Rev. Wright.
Trinity UCC’s website still list Rev. Wright as Senior Pastor (in present tense–unless I’m reading too fast) and Rev. Otis Moss III as pastor. Yes, the latter is of the renowned Moss lineage. I recall seeing an announcement online with a (recent) February date indicating that Rev. Wright would be stepping down as of May 2008–and that it was a decision contemplated if not announced (but maybe it was, at the church) last year. Sorry to lack the precise citation…things shift quickly in cyberspace like shapes in clouds. I know I sent the announcement to a correspondent, so I could probably backtrack and find it at some point. It’s not unusual for a pastor to begin assuming more of the responsibilities before the senior clergy steps down.
The illustrious source Wikipedia (the very one that we encourage students to consult with care) has in its entry on Rev. Jeremiah Wright that he stepped down from Trinity UCC on February 10, 2008. I’m sure that official UCC sites, which I checked with interest at some point, would have further details.
See also Chicago Tribune story dated February 11, 2008 about Rev. Wright’s last sermon (the day before); journalist is Margaret Ramirez.
Hi Maria – thank you very much for the references and back-up.