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Feb
20
I have to say that I’m surprised that, even with a completely packed room at the Crowne Plaza, not a single blog post (the Plain Dealer’s Openers, where anything having to do with OH-10 seems to be categorized under “Kucinich” – there isn’t a category for any other 10th district candidate, or “OH-10″ either, doesn’t count), other than my live-blog of the debate and Jeff Coryell’s start of a live-blog of it, seems to have popped up as a result of the debate yesterday with Joe Cimperman, Barbara Ann Ferris, Dennis Kucinich, Tom O’Grady and Rosemary Palmer.
Political Science 216 reviews it here (well, he reviews Dan Moulthrop’s sexy quotient, Cimperman’s stick-to-itness, Kucinich’s response to a COSE volunteer and Elizabeth Kucinich’s hair).
Here’s WCPN’s audio and here’s the PD’s video.
[Here's some pre-primary attention given to the candidates, a great first-person constituent endorsement of Dennis Kucinich (and an excellent comment thread at Brewed Fresh Daily that was started by a reference to that post) and Shannon Okey's thoughts on Palmer and Ferris. I did some searching to try and find other blog input on the candidates but found next to nothing. My search skills aren't all that all the time. If you've been covering the race, please leave a comment. Political Science 216 has some posts too.]
Of course, like Joe Cimperman, I don’t live in the district, but unlike Joe Cimperman, I don’t plan on moving into the district, even if I were to run and win the OH-10 election. So, maybe it’s just my inner neophyte, but I think the primary is fascinating – regardless of how absolutely certain the Plain Dealer folks continue to be about it being a two-person (I refuse to say two-man as this Openers piece does, Molly – come on) race. (Did anyone else watch the after-debate on Channel 3 with Mark Naymik, Tom Beres and and former Cleveland City Councilman, Bill Patmon? OMG, Mark – smile once in a while – you looked so unhappy to be there – well, maybe you were – okay – another time.)
So what did I think?
Winners:
Me: for staying home and live-blogging it. That room was packed. And I have no idea if it was wifi’d or could have accommodated my heating pad.
Barbara Ann Ferris: You know, I heard her on WCPN last week and I thought she did a great job, I really did. I’ve never met her, never seen her before. I’ve read a few things about her, nothing stellar, just always about being an afterthought. But listening to her and watching her yesterday and last week, I could not help but wonder why she hasn’t gotten farther. Has she only had her sights on the congressional seat and the mayor’s office? Why not some other political position? I thought she sounded knowledgeable, committed, coherent, serious, humorous, quick. What is it that people find that she lacks? Is she just running in the wrong place at the wrong time? I thought she was a very, very likeable and impressive candidate.
Dennis Kucinich: I thought he did very well, really. Especially in response to Dan Moulthrop’s final question about what the candidates have learned from the criticisms leveled at them by their opponents. The humility factor! I love that kind of thing. Dennis also stuck to the questions. He knew exactly why he was there and what he had to say and focus on in order to make an impression (mostly positive or at least the one he needs to make to have people vote for him, unless you don’t like what he is saying, and some people don’t, of course). I have to also believe that, like Hillary Clinton, his favorables and unfavorables just do not change a lot. People are going to have to have been really unhappy with him for a really long time to want to change. We just are not huge change people around here – some folks are, and some folks talk a lot about it, but when push comes to optical scan elliptical shade-in your choice moment? Change? Not so much. At least, that’s my sense of people in the 10th, from what I’ve read and heard.
Losers:
Cimperman: Obviously, this is a very subjective blog and blog post, but Cimperman’s performance simply did not turn me on. I felt lectured to. I know he was trying to stick to his message and others – the media in particular – seem to be impressed by that. But what is so impressive about that? Frankly, I find it a little insulting – I didn’t need to hear it every, single, time. I got the message – I think everyone got the message: you work as hard or harder than Kucinich. You will continue to work hard. And you will be there, in contrast to asserting that Kucinich isn’t there (in Congress) enough to adequately represent the residents of the 10th district.
But here’s my problem with this, Joe: we know you work hard. That is the one thing I’ve always read about and heard about you. So it’s the last thing I really need to have re-emphasized. I want to be told something I don’t know about you that would make me really believe not only that Kucinich needs to be replaced but that you are the person to replace him.
To be fair, all the candidates have to meet that burden, but none of them did. And maybe, in the current political climate, it’s a threshold that simply won’t be met when it comes to Kucinich. Why not? Because look around Ohio – what has gotten incumbents kicked out? Very serious hanky-panky with money, corruption, lying. No one accuses Kucinich of any of that – and, unless I’m missing it, I’ve never read anything to indicate that he has any serious issues when it comes to integrity or moral values and being hypocritical (which is really what’s undone so many incumbents over the last few years).
So around here, the threshold requires more than the obvious: when you run for president, you can’t focus on your district as much. When you’re a Democrat in a Republican-led congress, you can’t get many bills passed. Remember how often we heard about that in the 2006 campaigns? And it’s a red herring of an argument to say, look how few bills he got passed. It may sound good when you say it to the mirror, but most voters are smart enough to know that that’s not what makes a representative worth their vote.
Anyway – I think Joe has the tries-too-hard bug. That’s going to serve him well in the right race, perhaps when Dennis does move on or, if, like Capri Cafaro, Joe decides to run in another district (although Capri lost twice – in the 14th in the general election in 2004, and the 13th to Betty Sutton in the Dem primary in May 2006) or runs for another political office. As Tom O’Grady pointed out, Cimperman has been only a politician since he graduated from college so there’s a good bet he’ll be staying in politics, which is probably a good place for him.
O’Grady: This man is a likeable, bright, well-intentioned person who sounds as though he’s accomplished quite a bit as Mayor of North Olmstead. But, I confess, the opening statement anecdote about the Father who told him that we should ask to be blessed with foolishness? While I agree – since I feel very blessed with the kind of foolishness O’Grady went on to describe (the foolishness to keep going even when people are telling you that you are, you know, being foolish in your pursuit), as an opening statement with this crowd – even with Dennis Kucinich there, whom many people feel is overly blessed with foolishness given his runs at the U.S. presidency, I just felt that he could have used his time better.
Is his candidacy foolish? I can’t answer that. But I’ve seen people question his candidacy as one of being a plant. Unless people are willing to name names, O’Grady just does not seem like the kind of person who would go for running as a plant. That’s just my instinct, so I could be wrong. But even so, so what if he is a plant? He’s not going to win this race because again, he isn’t able to meet that threshold of convincing the district’s voters that Kucinich needs to be replaced and that he is the person to replace Kucinich. The fears about him splitting the vote and thereby preventing anyone else from beating Kucinich fall on deaf ears with me. We live in a democracy and a political system that allows even plants to run. If you want to weed out the root of how that happens, change the system. I don’t like it, I wouldn’t vote for a person if I believed that they were in fact in there just to draw away votes but I also am unlikely to vote for someone who simply isn’t a strong candidate on the merits anyway.
Which brings me to what I found most lacking: O’Grady said some good stuff, but still, he seemed the least impassioned to me. I bet his mayor role is exactly what suits him best right now. And his city is lucky to have him. But think about the Ohio Democratic congressional reps we currently have: their appetite to be there is very, very obvious, with maybe one or two exceptions.
While I’m trying to have it both ways – be hungry and show but don’t be so hungry that it seems over the top, what can I say? That’s what, as a I voter, I get to do.
Palmer: Well, this is very tough for me to write. I really want to like Rosemary Palmer and I think many people feel that way. But she’s just not been performing well, either on WCPN last week just before Barbara Ferris or yesterday. It was obvious that she’s under the weather, but still – she just seemed disconnected. Like Cimperman, she stayed focused on her message, but she really didn’t seem to fan out enough, to show a command of a broad range of facts, information and relevant plans for when she gets to Congress. I would not sink into the trap others do and call her a one-issue candidate. I believe that she cares deeply about this country and the district and is bright and thoughtful and certainly motivated beyond what most of us should hope we ever will feel, due to the death of her son in Iraq. In that sense, she’s a great role model – she’s doing something about something that happened to her.
But in the end, it’s just not enough. She appeared, to me, to be the least convincing of all the candidates when it comes to the “tell us why he needs to go and why you’re the one to replace him” threshold. On the one hand, like having the late Tom Lantos, a Holocaust survivor, be in charge of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, it would be great to have the parent of a soldier who died in Iraq be involved in issues related to the war. But on the other hand, I’m not sure she’s the one who would be able to do that most effectively. She makes a good point that Kucinich’s refusal to move off of his position related to ending the Iraq involvement makes Ohio have one less player at the table, but, again, with the Democrats in control of the House right now and most likely in the foreseeable future, I’m not sure how her presence would improve the situation. In this sense, Kucinich’s relative extreme position can have value, whereas the going along position? Maybe not as much.
The audience, women in the audience and/or City Club question-takers: Okay – I’m unleashing here: NINE QUESTIONS WERE ASKED AND ONLY ONE CAME FROM A WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is WITH that? Did no other women raise hands? Did no other women have decent questions? Were there THAT few women in the audience? What is going on here, City Club? Someone needs to check that out because that is just flat-out wrong.
Here are the topics of the nine questions:
1. Iraq – we are there – my question is: Do we have an ethical and moral obligation to maintain a military presence there until they can govern themselves?
2. Port Authority has meeting tonight – in District 10, will you support federal money to build a gravel dock on Whiskey Island?
3. I threw up watching news reports of what’s going on in slaughterhouses. You have a responsbility here – what will you do?
4. For Cimperman: You said you’ve brought 5,000 jobs and companies to area. Can you give examples? [the only question from a woman]
5. Question for Kucinich: how can you expect businesses to relocate to OH-10 when your record is antagonistic toward business?
6. Question to Cimperman: question about Steelyard Commons and whether those jobs are included in Cimperman’s quote that he’s create 5000 jobs, from a Mr. Gallo [Cimperman calls him by his name]
7. When are we going to see more money for alternatives to the street life – what are you going to do for the young people?
8. Questioner says that he was met with hostility from DK’s office – we’re not welcome so we don’t go – how are you going to get jobs (man is a volunteer with COSE)?
9. What action will you take in addressing the payday loan crisis?
All relevant questions, mostly focused on economic-related topics, but nothing stellar. Nothing on the crime rate, elections and voting, poverty, environment, health care (though the candidates brought this topic in several times), taxes, social security, Medicaid, higher education (other than the kids and streets question, civil liberties or numerous other areas that could have been probed. Would allowing women to ask the questions have changed that? Eh – maybe, maybe not. But that’s really not the point. It would have been nice to see more diversity, that’s all. But of course, who can most easily get to and pay for an event such as the debate?
Oh – last whine: how many of the people at the event live in the 10th? Any guesses? I don’t actually know, but I’d like to. Just for fun.
Conclusion: Thanks go to the City Club, WCPN, WEWS and WKYC for providing so many ways for people to hear and see the Democratic candidates for the 10th congressional district race. And boos to any constituent who doesn’t use those resources to learn about the candidates, even as minimally as you get a chance to with these resources.
My prediction, like that of many others, is that Dennis Kucinich is going to win the primary and beat Republican candidate Jim Trakas (who is running in a GOP primary against Jason Werner, though Jim’s campaign site doesn’t seem to be populated yet??). And if that’s what the voters of the 10th want, then, there you go.
By Jill Miller Zimon at 10:39 am February 20th, 2008 in Barbara Anne Ferris, Blogging, Campaigning, Cleveland+, Congress, Debates, Dennis Kucinich, Jim Trakas, Joe Cimperman, Media, Ohio, Politics, Predictions, Primary, Rosemary Palmer, Tom O'Grady
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9 Responses to “Review: OH-10 City Club Democratic Primary Debate, w/audio, video links”
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Feeling lectured to is never, ever a good thing when you’re trying to win over voters. Really, that’s what turned me off on Palmer, too, when it comes right down to it.
And I’m sorry, but I have a very difficult time with Steelyard Commons still — bringing underpaid Wal*Mart-style jobs in is hardly an achievement. You can’t throw a rock without hitting a Wal*Mart, it’s not like they got IKEA to move in or something. Convince that German solar panel company to set up shop and maybe I’ll be impressed…
A lovely roundup, Jill, and thanks for it!
Nice roundup, Jill. Frankly, I’m underwhelmed by them all and I live in the 10th. I’m tempted to not vote in that race in protest of mediocrity.
Hey Shannon – thanks, and back at ya. It’s what I like so much about your writing style – it’s the constituents we really need to hear give the evidentiary truth of what’s going on in that district and what the people want, like, don’t want and don’t like. That’s really, truly all that matters. Sure, the person in the end does have a lot to do with Ohio and the Great Lakes area in general, but still – only the population in the 10th gets to decide. Thanks – I hope your fellow 10th CD residents are reading what you write!
Wendy! lol no no no! You can not not vote! You hear me?
Who have you voted for all these other times? Don’t you dare tell me you haven’t been voting, young lady!
From the inbox:
“Your analysis of the 10th Congressional debate was dead on. Dennis is a little looney, but so polished as a politician. Barbara Ann Ferris surprised me! I could vote for her. Tom O’Grady is my mayor and I wanted to ask him why our roads suck. Get them fixed and we’ll talk about Congress. Cimperman turns me off. And Rosemary Palmer was such a disappointment. She spoke with hesitation in her voice and that gave the impression that she is a hesitant person. I knew her pretty well years ago and she was a force to be reckoned with. I expected so much more.”
Jill-
I was there raised my hand received the nod from the woman in red with the microphone thought I would be second behind a man who was standing beside the woman who had the question, but lo and behold she moved on to another part of the room leaving me to wonder what happened. She wandered back to get the man that I thought I was behind and then Dan said “one last question” and it went to the other side of the room.
To be fair, the set up of round tables with very little room between them was hardly an easy venue for questions from the floor, and I think a lot of people were just not willing to make much of an effort to ask a question.
I had three questions one about education, one about water, and one about small business. If I had made it to the microphone I would have asked the one about “water being the next oil” and how would they as members of Congress protect our resource from other areas of the country when many of the congresspeople from very dry areas are saying that we should all share and compromise on the issue of water.
If I had asked about education, I am afraid it would have been much too long and i would have been told by Dan to sit down. Just too many issues and too many things that need changed.
Thanks Jill for this recap.
[...] OH-10 City Club Democratic Primary Debate, w/audio, video … February 20th, 2008 The Great Gatsby wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptI have to also believe that, like [...]
[...] where to listen live. Here’s where to find the link to listen later. Read my review of the OH-10 debate from Tuesday, 2/19/08 (audio and video links are there too) and read my [...]
Thanks for sharing that, Gloria – I hope you had fun being there! I wish I could have gone, but home on the couch worked out just fine.
I really like your water question – that is very much an elephant in the living room – and we know how much water they need.