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Apr
22
Courage and scooping from Ohio Daily Blog. I received similar news a day or two ago but had to let it go due to overload and the holiday. From ODB (thank you, Jeff!):
Word is that 10th Congressional District primary candidate Rosemary Palmer (D-Cleveland) will be replacing attorney Emanuel Cotronakis (D-Bay Village) as the candidate for the GOP-held open seat in the 24th Ohio Senate District. Term-limited State Rep. Tom Patton (R-Strongsville) is the GOP contender. Cotronakis will be officially withdrawing soon, reportedly to focus on business.
I regard this as very good news. Like the previous Democratic Ohio Senate candidate to withdraw, Sylvia Washburn (D-Maumee) in the 2nd Ohio Senate District, Cotronakis was not visibly campaigning and had raised no money. Palmer proved to be an energetic and spirited campaigner in the primary. Although she finished last in the five-way contest, she gained valuable name recognition and experience, raised $50,917 in contributions from individuals, and has a host of campaign volunteers ready to go into action. I expect her to put a tremendous amount of energy and creativity into this race and make it a genuine contest.
I live in the 24th and I can’t remember if Jeff does too! But hopefully I’ll be able to keep up with the race (and Jeff!).
Good luck to Rosemary, I think it’s an excellent move.
By Jill Miller Zimon at 1:48 pm April 22nd, 2008 in Announcements, Campaigning, Democrats, Elections, Government, OH24th, Ohio, Pepper Pike, Politics, Statehouse
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30 Responses to “From ODB: Rosemary Palmer (D) to Replace Cotronakis in OH Sen. 24 race”
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Couple of thoughts.
1. Does Palmer live in the 24th District? I thought she was a resident of Old Brooklyn, which is in Wards 15 and 16 of Cleveland. That’s a far way from the 24th Senate District. I know the law doesn’t require you to live in the district, but if she complained in any way whatsoever about Cimperman not residing in the 10th, you open the door to hypocrisy.
2. Is there a problem with her being on the ballot for the general after being on the primary ballot for a different race? I seem to recall that this was an issue within the last couple of years (maybe a race in Lorain County), but I can’t recall the details.
3. If she is able to run, if I’m Tom Patton, I’m hoping that she wastes as much money on campaign staff as she did with her congressional campaign.
Interesting questions – I don’t know the answers – hopefully someone will be by with them hint hint certain readers!
It looks like R.C. 3513.04 could apply, but the statute seems to be silent as far as what happens when the loser of a primary is later nominated by the party to fill an open slot.
Also, the case I couldn’t remember involved Holly Brinda, who lost in the 2007 Elyria mayoral primary and then ran in the general election for the Elyria Board of Education.
Actually, I was wrong regarding the residency requirement for state legislators. Although Congressional reps need not reside in the district, the Ohio Constitution does require a state legislator to live in the district.
“O Const II Sec. 3 Residence requirements for state legislators
Senators and representatives shall have resided in their respective districts one year next preceding their election, unless they shall have been absent on the public business of the United States, or of this State.”
If Palmer doesn’t reside in the district, then I don’t see how she could run for the seat given that she wouldn’t have resided in the district for the year preceding the election.
Too bad she couldnt take out Kucinich.
Rosemary and her husband Paul live in Bay Village. They still own the home in Old Brooklyn that her husband grew up in, they just don’t live there. Rosemary and Paul do some work (writing, managing Families of the Fallen For Change, etc) from the Old Brooklyn location. Plus, Paul has family on the same block.
Rosemary has asked an elections expert to review the “Sore Loser Law” and it would not apply in this case for a number of reasons, one of which being that she would not be circulating petitions. Instead, she’d be a replacement candidate if appointed by the County Central Committee.
On her staffing decisions for the Congressional run, you’d need to ask her directly, but I’d argue that value can be measured in numerous ways. She certainly didn’t spend close to what some others did.
Finally, on the Cimperman point, Rosemary never made an issue about Cimperman living outside the district – as others might have, rather she invited him to move there.
Does the family rent out in Bay Village, because the auditor’s website doesn’t come back with any property in Bay owned by either Palmer or Schroeder?
Just curious.
They rent. My understanding is that they began renting the house in August 2007. Rosemary used it during the primary campaign as a second house and shared time at both houses.
Thanks for the info.
I wonder how “residence” is defined in this type of situation.
As you’ve mentioned, this is something she’s had examined, but if it comes down to it, it will be interesting to see what the BOE or courts have to say about it.
Granted, it’s a slightly different situation, but I can’t help but think back to the case of Jennifer Martinez (and Lynn McLaughlin Murray for that matter) who was removed from the ballot for using her maiden name on the ballot where the evidence was relatively split as to what name she used.
No problem. And I should have been more clear on my last point. She doesn’t split time between Bay and Old Brooklyn now. She lives in Bay Village. She is a registered voter in Bay and a member of the Ward Club. She spends time in Old Brooklyn and works out of the house there, but that’s not where lives.
I find it interesting that she was chosen to fill the slot. Apparently she did not burn bridges by running against Kuccinich or apparently she built some new bridges.
I care where my candidates live, no question. I believe in them needing to be vested.
But the problem is, with state senate districts as vast and bizarrely shaped as #24, it’s so hard to argue just how much it matters since you could live anywhere in the district and know squat about another part of it. So what does living in the district really mean?
Again – investment: important. But knowledge-wise – not as much.
Also want to thank you all for conversing maturely!! Wow – see? It CAN be done.
Here are some key numbers to keep in mind: 4339 and $70,550.
What are these numbers? The former is the number of the votes Palmer received in the primary, and the latter is how much she spent on campaign staff.
That works out to $16.26 for each vote she got. Or to look at it another way, for each dollar she spent on staff/consultants, she got .06 votes in return.
Not a very good return on the investment, no matter how you slice it.
ps – Jill you are right, conversing maturely can be done and is much more productive. Thanks for allowing us to have this debate on your site.
S. Hall – I’m not convinced we can judge the investment until we look at that ratio for other similarly situated candidates, true? Likewise, esp. in politics, how many times do losers run before becoming winners? And at what levels? So – compared to Cimperman of however many years ago before he ran for anything, versus Palmer in her first political race (I think this was not her first, but perhaps first in a very long time and in Ohio?), how does she compare.
In other words, that number is by no means an absolute measure of much – it could be re-categorized as how much it costs to get your name recognized for the next time around and so on.
But it’s an interesting point – definitely one way to slice it and look at it.
I hear that George Diamantis is the prefered replacement if Cotronakis withdraws. I am sure the party would not appoint someone who’s eligibility would surely be challenged by Patton. Besides the “Sore Loser” rule, the residency requirement would seem to rule her out. The Ohio Secretary of State website has her residence as Cleveland. Why would the party appoint her when there are these questions about her eligibility?
PALMER ROSEMARY A
Voter Information (from Ohio Secretary of State website)
Address 4465 S HILLS DR CLEVELAND, OH 44109
Polling Location Information
Precinct Code 18-P-BBV
Precinct Name CLEVELAND-15- N
Location Name BROOKLYN HTSUNCH OF CHRIST
Location Description 2005 WEST SCHAAF RD
Location Address 2005 WEST SCHAAF RD CLEVELAND 44109
Location Load Date 2/29/2008
It may be that the website of the Secretary of State and the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections is out dated and she changed her residence before the March 4th primary, but if she voted in Cleveland on March 4th, 2008 (which I don’t know one way or the other) I think Patton would have a field day with this – and probably win a challenge to throw her off the ballot.
Rosemary is the preferred candidate of the Senate Minority Caucus. She’s had a series of meetings with the Democratic Senate leadership over the last few weeks, and as I understand it, they met with at least one other prospective candidate before making their decision to support Rosemary.
Rosemary lives in Bay Village. That is her home. She is registered to vote there, sleeps there, reads there, cooks there, etc. She was living in two locations during the primary campaign, however she still was registered to vote in Cleveland 15, and did. She doesn’t live there now, so residency isn’t an issue. Furthermore, the “sore loser law” does not apply in this case. There is no issue here.
Election falsification is not an issue?? You can only reside in one place at a time. If she did not reside in Cleveland on March 4, 2008 or on November 6, 2007 it is a crime for her to have voted in Cleveland – unless she voted on a provisional ballot listing another address in the County (Bay Village?) as her actual/new residence. If she did reside in Cleveland on March 4, 2008 or November 6, 2007, then she can not have lived in the 24th Senate District for one year prior to the election date. Look, I don’t have anything against Rosemary Palmer. In fact I like her and would be happy to get elected, but she did not move into the 24th District in time to run for the seat this time. Do I think she should go to jail for election falsification? Absolutely not, but I would think that’s enough for Patton to get her thrown off the ballot.
I’m not an election attorney, but she and the Senate Caucus have consulted with those who are and they are the ones who have told her this is not “election falsification” as you claim. That’s a major reason why they and others are willing and enthusiastic to support her.
I’ll be sure to make additional posts here as soon as I’m able to cite exactly why she’s safe from a challenge as soon as I am able to. It’s after business hours, so I likely won’t reach anyone today and I want to be careful not to cite the wrong thing or misrepresent the law.
I think it is premature for Rosemary or any of her supporters to portend to know the out come of a vote that has yet to take place.
There are numerous reasons why the party would not be willing to put her name on the ballot. The party does not need to be divided from the get go when going up against a formidable opponent such as Patton. Her residency issues are only fuel for the fodder and Patton will surely use that against her.
Secondly, there is more to the “Sore Loser” statement than just residency. What message would the party be sending if it put Rosemary on yet another ballot, after seeing her loose in the same election cycle. It would only signal that they are not strong enough to at least put up a candidate that has the ability, not only to raise adequate funds, but use translate those funds into a victory.
If Rosemary was indeed such a strong candidate in the eyes of the party, would they not have approached her first? Would they not have asked her to be the nominee or even the replacement, rather than having her lobby for the position?
She is not electable, that is already a proven fact. She should, with the grace that she shows in her everyday life, accept defeat this election year and remove herself from the equation. Perhaps she could take the time to refresh her own monetary investment she made in previous campaigns and renew her vigor 2012.
Jane and Bay Village – please remember that I have your email addresses and it’s extremely easy to google and learn who you are. I just did it yesterday with another commenter.
Why getting so active now that Palmer shows interest and others show interest in her? Where were you all these past weeks, lobbying for your guy?
Where do you live – that’s to both of you (and remember, it’s not hard to verify)
If you are working with or otherwise volunteering or connected to candidates, make it known and reveal your bias.
Otherwise, your credibility and the reputation of the people you support will suffer.
There is nothing I said in my blog that was not said by those supporting Rosemary. It was all fact, she came in 6th in the congressional race after raising the second or third amount of money. Therefore her fund raising did not garner a victory. That is public record. There are issues with her residency, that is public record. She voted in March as a resident outside of the 24th district.
There is no bias in stating fact. Nor is there anything wrong with stating another fact that Rosemary has not in fact garnered the appointment. There has not been a vote.
It is also fact that her supporters are on the blogs stating it as fact. If they are going to blog things that are untrue, the Diamantis camp has every right to set the record straight. She is not the appointed nominee. If she should become it, then she can blog that she is in fact the chosen candidate. Until then, her supporters should not jump the gun.
Yes I am a Diamantis supporter. This is a blog site, not a voter registration site. I live in Cleveland and have for over 17 years. However, my residency is not the issue, as I am not running for office.
I would hate to think that my constitutional rights to speak freely, and state fact are not being trampled on here because I am not a Palmer supporter. That would destroy credibility. Not the correction of misprinted facts on your site.
You feel trampled? Wow – you have not been around the blogs much have you?
How can you be a supporter of someone for a race for which they’re not on the ballot? Why didn’t you have him get in before?
Your support seems awfully fair weather.
Nothing’s been misprinted – the software works just fine.
You seem to say you in the Diamantis camp – then state your role, please. Again, veiling yourself will only decrease credibility.
This may surprise you but I live in Bay Village. Where have I been these past weeks?? I have been working to try to find a way to keep Cotronakis in the race. You realize he has not withdrawn, right? I speak now as a response to the claim that Palmer will be replacing Cotronakis as if it was a done deal. It is not. Not by a long shot. IF Cotronakis does withdraw, I prefer George Diamantis. He is a commercial appraiser, very smart and likeable and he is a hard worker. He also is eligible to be the State Senator for the 24th District having been a resident in North Olmsted for at least the required amount of time. I am not throwing stones at Rosemary. She would make a fine candidate, it is just that she is not eligible to run for this seat. If the Ohio Secretary of State issues a declaration that she is eligible then great, we have 2 good replacement candidates (if we need one). Why would we as Democrats voluntarily walk into a legal disaster that would at the very least lead to a court challenge and based on the evidence I found by searching the internet for just 10 minutes would lead to Rosemary Palmer being declared ineligible and stricken from the ballot. Patton would be able to time his court challenge to cause the most damage to the Democrats. This is nothing personal against you, or Rosemary or anyone. It is a statement of fact that she voted in Cleveland as a Cleveland resident in November of 2007 and probably in March of 2008. That is strong evidence that she was a resident of Cleveland at that time and thus is not eligible to run for the 24th State Senate seat. That is my only point.
I appreciate your comment – are you also saying that you are not employed by or otherwise volunteering for any of the candidates? That’s really the concern I wanted addressed, but your other info is helpful too.
I am not employed by any campaign. I am not working at anyone’s direction but my own. I know Rosemary and George. I’ve known George much longer and know him to be a good man.
Thank you, and good luck. I hate to say it, but I’m very concerned that Patton won’t be able to be beaten this go round.
I am a consultant to the Diamantis campaign. Having said that, I do not believe that Patton is unbeatable. Never say never. However, we cannot even begin to broach him in a manner that can allow a democrat to defeat him as long as we are infighting. Rosemary should know that Tom is going to take her to court. It is inevidable. The right thing to do in my opinion, is for her to allow Diamantis to get moving with the campaign, knowing there are no road blocks for Tom to throw in our way and lets get this going.
Tom’s position on predetory check cashing services should have been blasting on every news outlet and been discussed on every blog site by now. Instead, he is relaxing, getting a free pass and ticking off the calendar as the democrats do what we are doing.
George is ready to go. We have a strong support system in, we can raise the funds in a short amount of time and we have the energy to give this a really good run. But we cannot take these days back that we are wasting.
As democrats, let us do what is right for the party, not self-promotion, and let us do what the democrats should be doing in 08, taking control of every available seat. Both nationally and locally.
I would hope Rosemary feels the same and can understand that Tom will come at her with all he has, just to hunker himself even further into a good position. He can certainly win if no one else is eve on the ticket.
Jane – what about name recognition? Between your candidate and Palmer, even if we accept that Palmer isn’t as well-known as Patton, isn’t your candidate even less well-known than Palmer? This is my impression – I’m not speaking for anyone else.
Diamanits will become a very well known name. He is known throughout the business community already and being Greek Orthodox, he has a strong base already intact in the four churches in Cleveland. 90% of the families that attend those churches live in the district.
I am not worried about that at all, his vision is strong, he has fresh and worthy vision that will captivate everyone. He is at heart a leader. George started his first business at the age of 20, he is a work horse, never says never and goes the extra mile to make sure what he sets out to accomplish gets done. In fact, he opened a restaurant at 20, but could not serve alcohol as he was to young to get a liquor license! He is a true NE Ohioan in that regard, he rolls up his sleeves and gets to work. He is not interested in being a politician, he is interested in NE Ohio being all that it can be. He is interested in his children having a solid economy to raise their own children on one day. He is young, energetic and I have no doubt that once we get him introduced to the public he will be instantly likable.
Palmer had name recognition during the primary race for the congressional seat, yet she still did not do well.
Diamantis is in no way afraid to lay out his goals and vision. He is eager for the challenge and eager to get his message heard.
It is always good to question those who want to lead us. However, time is ticking and Patton is, I am sure, loving every minute of it.
If the past 8 years have taught us anything it is that name recognition and being an insider in no way translates into being effective or a leader. We are looking at perhaps a modern day Populist movement and it is thrilling and exciting to see what can happen in government when real people with real life and business experience rise up to the call of civil service.