31 Responses to “Misogyny Pays Redux: The New Republic’s cover image of Clinton”

1. 1 John Ettorre on April 22nd, 2008 3:46 pm

   Sorry, but no right-thinking male in America could possibly agree that being against the idea of an unqualified, obnoxious, shifty Hillary for president equates to hating women. Most of us happen to thoroughly dislike this particular one, for a host of eminently good reasons. She’s been described as reminding men of their first wives, and I couldn’t put it any better than that. The idea of listening to and watching her occupy the nation’s bully pulpit for four or eight years is enough to send most of us headed for the exits.

2. 2 Jill Miller Zimon on April 22nd, 2008 3:52 pm

   John, I’m always told not to apologize for what I’m about to say – that that’s the first mistake women often make in their writing and speaking. I think it’s good advice.

   I’m actually not really sure what you mean with what you’ve written. But I think that’s because of the time of day and too much matzah.

   Regardless, the cover lacks journalistic integrity and taking every word you say as true doesn’t change that.

3. 3 Bad American on April 22nd, 2008 3:55 pm

   Write this down:

   John and I agree 100 percent on this.

4. 4 Bad American on April 22nd, 2008 3:56 pm

   Oh great, now we’re both going to get taken to the woodshed by Jill. . . .

   The cover IS over the top though. But what do we expect anymore from TNR?

5. 5 Jill Miller Zimon on April 22nd, 2008 4:16 pm

   I am not touching this one, “now we’re both going to get taken to the woodshed by Jill. .”

   There is no excuse for that cover photo unless you are owned by Rupert Murdoch in which case, yes, it’s expected.

6. 6 John Ettorre on April 22nd, 2008 7:10 pm

   What a happy surprise to in agreement on this one. But then, we men are all under constant verbal assault from the sisterhood, and so naturally tend to cling together. As for that photo, the magazine’s just having a little fun, getting a rise out of you, and it seems to have worked. There’s simply no getting around the fact that you need at least a little showmanship these days to sell a magazine, with so many options out there. It’s what’s inside that counts, and I think TNR delivers fairly well on that count.

7. 7 J. Rowsey on April 22nd, 2008 11:17 pm

   Jill – Just another example of “humor” at the expense of a powerful woman. I don’t quite understand what fear many men have with a strong woman. Of course it is ok if the woman is a conservative republican because they feel less threatened. Not all men are scared of strong women.

8. 8 Bad American on April 23rd, 2008 8:06 am

   Two words:

   Kathleen Sibelius

   for President whenever

9. 9 Jill Miller Zimon on April 23rd, 2008 8:11 am

   Thanks, Jason – I agree, from what I’ve observed, not being a man myself and all.

10. 10 Jill Miller Zimon on April 23rd, 2008 8:12 am

    Bad A’can – yup – I don’t know a ton about her but what I do know indicates great possibility. It’s the pipeline, folks.

11. 11 Eric on April 23rd, 2008 9:03 am

    Hilarious cover. Love it. I especially like some of the quote bubbles:

    “Caucuses are elitist!”

    “You’ll take away this nomination from my cold dead hands!”

    “If you exclude states that start with a vowel, Americans
    abroad, and former members of the Confederacy, then multiply my results by pi…”

    “How do you say “Judas” in Spanish?”

    All in all bloody brilliant I’d say.

12. 12 Plunderbund - » Hillary Fans and Apologists Risk Diluting Meaning of Misogyny on April 23rd, 2008 9:27 am

    [...] …of course not. I’m not sure how you can get “woman hating” out of something like this. Jill thinks it is. [...]

13. 13 Eric on April 23rd, 2008 9:29 am

    more complete commentary here.

14. 14 John Ettorre on April 23rd, 2008 10:38 am

    If women want to compete in national politics, as they should, they have to take this and more, without whining. That’s just the way it is. Same thing goes for journalism. The Blogher crowd can keep track of slights all they want, but the world moves on, and competition is unforgiving to whiners.

15. 15 Jill Miller Zimon on April 23rd, 2008 12:27 pm

    John:

    1. If you find this blog post – which has zero commentary from me to be whining, you have an inexplicably (to me) low threshold.

    2. Do not equate the “Blogher crowd” with me. There are more than 7 million of them, many of whom do not want to be associated with me I am certain. I’m surprised at your use of labels.

16. 16 Jill Miller Zimon on April 23rd, 2008 12:28 pm

    Eric – thanks for link to your post – I’m going to edit it into your comment if you don’t mind.

17. 17 Jill Miller Zimon on April 23rd, 2008 12:32 pm

    Eric, I don’t disagree with what you point to as wit. But I have been taught and try to adhere to not raising myself up by putting others down. The cover does that, in the name of money, at the expense of Clinton and in exchange for doing anything with journalistic integrity about the underlying issues the witty quotes raise. That’s my objection.

18. 18 John Ettorre on April 23rd, 2008 1:25 pm

    Maybe I’ve overinterpreted your point, but you did use the word misogyny in a headline next to the cover photo, so the casual reader would naturally assume you were labeling it that.

19. 19 Jill Miller Zimon on April 23rd, 2008 1:36 pm

    John, that’s a fair assumption.

    What’s it got to do with whining, slights or competition?

20. 20 John Ettorre on April 23rd, 2008 1:43 pm

    Boy, we really do seem to be talking different languages, don’t we? What I’m saying is simply that I would consider that equating criticism of a female candidate with misogyny, hatred of women, to be whining. And so would most other males. Running for office in a democracy, especially for president, means you’re going to get criticized, fairly, unfairly and everything in between. That just comes with the territory. I suppose the genders really are just two different species.

21. 21 John Ettorre on April 23rd, 2008 1:46 pm

    And by the way, if that TRN cover is suggestive of a hatred of women, three or four of Maureen Dowd’s recent columns about Hillary would also have to be labeled misogynst. Does she generally hate women too? Or is she simply directing criticism at this particular woman, for a host of perfectly understandable reasons, given all of Hillary’s baggage?

22. 22 Jill Miller Zimon on April 23rd, 2008 1:55 pm

    Thanks goodness I know enough males who don’t see suggesting that that cover is misogynistic as the same as whining. Frankly, John – you are the one whining here. To accept what is wrong by saying it comes with the territory is a total cop-out. And from what I’ve read on your blog, you’ve implied many times that the genders are different.

    Why that matters at all in this situation escapes me.

23. 23 John Ettorre on April 23rd, 2008 1:57 pm

    I think anyone with eyes and ears can plainly see how different the genders are on a range of issues and attitudes. But we’ll just have to disagree on this one and move on.

24. 24 Jill Miller Zimon on April 23rd, 2008 2:08 pm

    I don’t disagree on there being gender-based differences between people. I disagree with your characterization of this post’s content as whining.

    I’ve been around some world class stereotypical JAPs in my time – now THAT is some whining.

    

25. 25 John Ettorre on April 23rd, 2008 2:11 pm

    Agreed. And to clarify, I wasn’t so much saying that you were whining, but that there was and is much whining going on on behalf of and in defense of Hillary.

26. 26 Jill Miller Zimon on April 23rd, 2008 2:22 pm

    Well – yes – we will have to agree to disagree here. If Eskimos truly do have 40 or more words for snow, I’ve easily got that many to describe the range of ranting that occurs before I’d get to calling something whining.

    But I can also screen out the sounds of a house being built in my backyard, the dishwasher, the clothesdryer, three children, the television and the radio while I write.

    It takes a lot for me to notice.

27. 27 Glass City Jungle | The men say it’s not misogynistic…us women better listen… on April 24th, 2008 9:57 pm

    [...] Pho, Eric and Tim all share why they don’t believe Jill or I guess Kathy or Jessica or Jeff Amanda or Taylor or a different Jill are correct in this being [...]

28. 28 John Ettorre on April 26th, 2008 12:40 pm

    It’s not just men who think it’s lame to assume that all criticism of Hillary equals misogyny. Plenty of smart women who feel more reverence for the truth than for rote sisterhood sympathy feel that way too:

    http://althouse.blogspot.com/2008/04/mocking-hillary-is-not-sexist-and-its.html

29. 29 Why calling out is rooting out: Clinton-New Republic & Obamas-New Yorker | Writes Like She Talks on July 14th, 2008 10:40 am

    [...] Some of the comments in my thread about the photo: [...]

30. 30 More sexist treatment of Palin by…Palin supporters : Writes Like She Talks on October 10th, 2008 2:36 pm

    [...] And lest we forget, where were all the pro-women Republicans when The New Republic cover of Hillary Clinton came out? [...]

31. 31 Smackdown on women in Sandusky « Buckeye RINO on March 10th, 2009 7:39 pm

    [...] to perceive subtleties.  For example, when Jill Miller Zimon, of Writes Like She Talks, complained how a photograph of Hillary Rodham Clinton was used on a magazine cover, I just didn’t get it.  I think Scott Piepho correctly assessed the [...]

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