-
Where Jill Will Talk Like She Writes
-
Don't Get Mad, Get Elected
Print This Post
May
15
I just can’t support a group that, according the Political Punch,
stands ready to boycott the Democratic Party if Clinton doesn’t win the nomination, and will work against superdelegates who support Obama over Clinton as a means of registering their displeasure with the party.
“We have a plan to campaign against the Democratic nominee,” the group said in a press release Thursday. “We have the (wo)manpower and the money to make our threat real. And there are millions of supporters who will back us up in the swing states. If you don’t listen to our voice now, you will hear from us later.”
And all the momentum for that group seems to be driven from Columbus, Ohio. Lucky us.
I’m all for expression, first amendment, free speech, assembly and so on. I’m even for letting people know how angry you are about something, over and over and over. And sure, sometimes, you just take the hard line, no matter how it might seem to others.
I imagine that that’s how the folks who appear to support this effort feel.
I don’t feel the same way. I know I don’t feel like sacrificing a Democratic president for the sexism that’s existed for centuries and no doubt isn’t going to disappear in the next seven months. But I am willing to push for other promises of efforts to battle sexism.
I know what it feels like to be pushed to an extreme stance. And I would say that it’s up to those of us - all of us - who don’t want to make that sacrifice out of a Democratic presidential win to find a way to address the same concerns that have these folks organizing.
More feedback:
Donna Darko with email contacts and Washington Post coverage (mentions a YouTube of a group member being on Fox but I couldn’t locate it)
Virginia at Katalusis is following the events and has a link to a story by Catherine Candisky of the Columbus Dispatch
From the Dispatch:
Democratic observers say passions are high as the nominating contests come to a close and the party is poised to have either the first female or first black presidential nominee.
“It’s great to be making history, but somebody is going to lose and their supporters are going to be disappointed and have legitimate complaints,” said Greg Haas, a Columbus-based Democratic consultant.
“For ranks to close, the party is going to have to take seriously the concerns raised by the losing candidate because there are legitimate issues. If those are dismissed, then there will be a problem uniting.”
Jim Ruvolo, former Ohio Democratic Party chairman, said that by November most Clinton and Obama supporters will be united.
“Most Democrats and independents want to deny George Bush a third term, and that will unite us,” Ruvolo said. “I think at the end of the day this election will be about a new direction for the country.”
I suggest Haas and Ruvolo make their plans for getting to that united place known ASAP.
Sphere: Related ContentBy Jill Miller Zimon at 10:22 pm May 15th, 2008 in Barack Obama, Voting, Gender, Social Issues, Campaigning, Ohio, Elections, Women, Politics
Comments
112 Responses to “More on Clinton Supporters Count Too”
She will be on O’Reilly tonight at 10 Central 11 Eastern.
i’ve got video of their appearance on O’Reilly here.
Thanks, Donna - sorry about your comment - it got stuck in the spam catcher, not unlike a lot of “good” comments lately. I apologize. Thanks for following the Clinton supporters’ efforts. I can understand how they feel, but as I wrote, I can’t support ALL their tactics or logic, though I do ache for the Obama campaign to acknowledge what is boiling over.
Before everyone starts attacking the Clinton supporters let’s not forget that several black politicians have stated on National TV that they would basically hold the black vote hostage if Hillary is elected.
Where was the uproar then?
Some of the passion/anger you find towards the Obama group has been due to the blatant DOUBLE STANDARD and unfairness towards Hillary Clinton.
Obama, the DNC, Pelosi, Ted Kennedy and the Elite are responsible for the revolt that is going to happen in the near future if they keep treating Hillary and her supporters like crap.
The only way to resolve this situation is to let the contest go to the convention and let the Delegates decide who the true Democratic Nominee will be.
After all each candidate needs to reach 2209 …if they don’t the rules state that the contest shall be taken to the convention for the delegates to decide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcdnlNZg2iM&feature=PlayList&p=F8BDC1EB1E9792B2&index=5
Here are only SOME of the examples that Hillary supporters are furious over. She has been hijacked by sexism so blatant and so APPROVED of and so exploited by Obama for his own gain that we cannot vote for him. Using “99 Problems” as a “victory” song in Iowa, the Hillary nutcrackers all while he sat silent and participated. NO. Too little, too late to make nice now.
It’s a PROTEST vote against him for obvious reasons and because our own party threw us under a bus. No thanks Obama. Not now, not ever.
Life long, college educated dem who Obama will not need in November.
Make case for hillary. Media especially MSNBC has treated her unfairly. I am with you.
I agree that the backlash was to be predicted by the treatment Sen. Clinton received at the hands of the media and the Dem. Party leaders. There was never any outrage voiced over the manner in which she has been treated. The disrespect so many Obama supporters showed her, as well as his own, put me off. He never said anything or asked any of them publicly to stop their offensive comments. He showed her no respect, so I feel no reason to show him any–and I was a woman long before I was a Democrat!
I’m going to kill myself today due to head wounds from beating my head on my desk. So many others commenting around the sphere this morning don’t seem to get it. Women are the largest voting bloc. They are the backbone of the party. Yet some of these folks act like this is all about HRC when it’s not even about her at all. It’s about year after year after year going by with little (if anything) to show for it. Why do we need groups like EMILY’s List, White House Project, etc if the need doesn’t exist?
Jill, you’re looking for solutions? Here’s mine. It’ll piss everyone off, but too freaking bad. We’re all in this mess together, so we’ll need to get out of it together.
First, Hillary and Obama need to be on the same ticket. They hate each other? Tough. Deal with it. They are grown adults with big brains and lots to offer this country. Suck it up and run together.
Second, make a firm commitment to each other to AGGRESSIVELY recruit WOMEN, AFRICAN AMERICANS, HISPANIC AMERICANS, and ASIAN AMERICANS (especially women of those cultural groups) to run for office - from dog catcher to U.S. Senate. Set real benchmarks to add more right away. (Something like 3 female U.S. Senators next cycle)
Third, implore Howard Dean to make the 50 State Strategy include a plan to promote female and minority candidates - again, with benchmarks (not quotas, but smart goals to get us where our elected officials resemble the people they serve).
Fourth, consider naming a team of 5-7 men and women who would probably be cabinet members. Don’t call them cabinet picks. Call it a “leadership team”‘ or something like that. Let them be the TOP surrogates and pick each one with a specific focus. John Edwards, Bill Richardson, Evan Bayh, Kathleen Sebellius, Jennifer Granholm, Janet Napolitano, Stephanie Tubbs Jones, Al Gore, etc. The focus they have would reflect their background and their ability to speak to a bloc of voters. Edwards, for example could talk law and rural voters. Richardson could handle foreign policy and court hispanic/latino voters and so on. By not naming them as your cabinet, you avoid the campaign centering on them individually (which risks getting you off message), but you show the country that you’ve got a smart, diverse team advising you and you look ready to lead out of the blocks. Plus, this acts as a vetting process well ahead of time. AND you expose new talent to a wider audience. This helps bring new blood into the party.
Finally, everyone sends $100 in the first 24 hours and we spend that money by making McCain the worst performing general election candidate in GOP history.
You wrote,
“I know I don’t feel like sacrificing a Democratic president for the sexism that’s existed for centuries and no doubt isn’t going to disappear in the next seven months.”
My response:
How are people ever going to stop being sexist and miogynist if they are allowed to get away with it? There is a reason sexism has existed for not hundreds but thousands of years. It’s because it’s been allowed to exist. Allowing it to go one for a minute, an hour, a day, a week, a month, a year without response without punishment is what has turned it into thousands of years of sexism.
If you vote for a party and a man that has called the most respected, intelligent and accomplished woman in US political history untrustworthy, liar, monster, gave her the finger, brushed her off his shoulders and condoned “journalists” and talking heads saying that she should be taken in a back room and killed, you are the reason sexism exists.
You are nice to worry about sacrificing the possibility of a Democratic President. Too bad Obama and his people didn’t care about sacrificing your dignity as a human being.
If Obama becomes President, he will not be my president. He will be the president of the people in this country who don’t love and respect women.
[…] Writes Like She Talks […]
So instead you are going to vote for the guy who divorced his old wife so he could marry a younger, richer woman?
You are going to vote for a guy who wants to take away reproductive rights from women?
Anne Marie -
A few thoughts:
1. You wrote, “If you vote for a party and a man that has called the most respected, intelligent and accomplished woman in US political history untrustworthy, liar, monster, gave her the finger, brushed her off his shoulders and condoned “journalists” and talking heads saying that she should be taken in a back room and killed, you are the reason sexism exists.”
Are you arguing that McCain and the GOP has treated Hillary and/or women better?
2. You wrote this: “Allowing it to go one for a minute, an hour, a day, a week, a month, a year without response without punishment is what has turned it into thousands of years of sexism.”
Is punishment what you are after? If yes, who is that you want to punish? And if you say Obama, well, how is punishing him going to help eradicate sexism? I see a total disconnect there, but I’m also not usually interested in punishment (including right now in regard to this issue).
3. You wrote, “You are nice to worry about sacrificing the possibility of a Democratic President. Too bad Obama and his people didn’t care about sacrificing your dignity as a human being.”
I’m not being nice at all, promise. But in this comment, you are targeting Obama and “his people” - I thought Clinton Supporters Count Too is unhappy with the DNC and democratic leadership?
Jill, please see my responses below yours.
Anne Marie -
A few thoughts:
1. You wrote, “If you vote for a party and a man that has called the most respected, intelligent and accomplished woman in US political history untrustworthy, liar, monster, gave her the finger, brushed her off his shoulders and condoned “journalists” and talking heads saying that she should be taken in a back room and killed, you are the reason sexism exists.”
Are you arguing that McCain and the GOP has treated Hillary and/or women better?
**I am not arguing it. I see the difference with my own eyes. McCain is a good friend of Hillary’s and he has never nor do I believe will he ever disrespect her the way Obama and the DNC has. Of course neither parties are perfect, but the fact is that the DNC has acted on their sexism and favoritism in an organized way, against the most accomplished female politician in US History. The GOP has not done that. Maybe they would too if given the chance, but so far they have not, and if they have any sense, they will learn from this episode and never will****.
2. You wrote this: “Allowing it to go one for a minute, an hour, a day, a week, a month, a year without response without punishment is what has turned it into thousands of years of sexism.”
Is punishment what you are after?
***I am after living in a world where men and women are seen as equals and do not demonize each other based on gender. Humans are animals. They learn through reward and punishment. If you reward good behavior, they repeat it to keep getting reward. If you reward bad behavior (as in with a vote) then they will continue to repeat it. If a human animal suffers after doing something bad, usually if they are smart, they will avoid doing it because they don’t want pain.***
If yes, who is that you want to punish?
***I want to send a clear message to the leaders of the DNC, to the men of the Democratic Party, to all people in the UNITED STATES, that one does not win when one treats good women like garbage.***
And if you say Obama, well, how is punishing him going to help eradicate sexism?
***See my explanation above about how animals learn. If Obama and anyone else who participated in this woman bashing campaign see that you cannot win by being or condoning hate against women, then they are less likely to try it agin.***
I see a total disconnect there, but I’m also not usually interested in punishment (including right now in regard to this issue).
***I hope my comments have helped you connect to what I am saying. No one is interested in punishment but it’s necessary. If you are not interested in punishment, does this mean that if a female friend or relative is sexually harrased at work, you are not interested in there being a way for the offender to be disciplined so that they stop what they are doing? And how do people get disciplined? Usually through rewards or threats to take something away that they value.
3. You wrote, “You are nice to worry about sacrificing the possibility of a Democratic President. Too bad Obama and his people didn’t care about sacrificing your dignity as a human being.”
I’m not being nice at all, promise. But in this comment, you are targeting Obama and “his people” - I thought Clinton Supporters Count Too is unhappy with the DNC and democratic leadership?
***I am not part of Clinton Supporters Count Too, and so I only represent my own views through what I have written. I agree with them for sure. I don’t target, I’m not a sniper. The only power I have is my vote, and possibly the power of organizing those who feel as I do. I want Obama,those supporters who have engaged in hateful bashing of women, the DNC leaders who have tried to abort Hillary for months, prematurely, the media and all people who have publicly derided and insulted Hillary, her supporters and all women everywhere to see that hating women will not be rewarded.
Joseph, please see my responses below:
So instead you are going to vote for the guy who divorced his old wife so he could marry a younger, richer woman?
***I hope to vote for Hillary Clinton in November. I will not vote for Obama. I do not know why McCain divorced his “old” wife. You say it is because he wanted to marry a younger, richer woman. Okay, fine. There are plenty of women who divorce their husbands to marry richer men. There are many reasons that happens. Part of it has to do with the reproductive instinct. Fact is we don’t know why McCain really divorced his first wife, and it’s none of our business. If you had told me that he abused his wife, that would be something. You know what? McCain is man enough to marry a woman who has more money than him and not let it bother him. That’s actually a plus for him.***
You are going to vote for a guy who wants to take away reproductive rights from women?
***I hope to vote for Hillary. I want reproductive rights for women, but I also want respect for women. I used to volunteer for Mass. NARAL so I care very much about that issue. I come from a country where that right was missing so I know what it means to not have the right. But that country also didn’t have access to any methods of contraception. I have faith that if we live in a country where women are valued and respected, we will continue to have reproductive rights. I think that rewarding the Democrats with a win for Obama after the woman hate that has surfaced in this campaign, this will do more to erode the rights and esteem of women long term then voting for John McCain.
If the Republicans prove to be as misogynistic as the Democrats in power have been, then it will be time to work towards a new party if I continue to care about politics at all. ***
Thanks for your time.
“If the Republicans prove to be as misogynistic as the Democrats in power”???
Not choosing Hillary does NOT make someone a misogynist. Just like not supporting Obama does not make a person a racist.
However, old men who try to take away reproductive rights from women ARE misogynists.
John McCain falls into the second category.
Joseph:
Check out: http://wilknetwork.com/ Steven Corbett Radio Show.
Please see my responses below:
“If the Republicans prove to be as misogynistic as the Democrats in power”???
Not choosing Hillary does NOT make someone a misogynist. Just like not supporting Obama does not make a person a racist.
*** I agree. But listen. I never said this is about who people voted for. For me this is about the tone and the hateful things SAID about Hillary by Democrats including Obama during this campaign. The Republicans have never had the opportunity to deal with a serious female presidential candidate for President. They haven’t screwed it up, and hopefully they’ll learn to never screw it up when it’s their turn. The Democrats screwed up this amazing opportunity big time. This Democratic primary has not just been about blacks. It’s been about women. And the Democrats chose Blacks and kicked women to the curb.***
However, old men who try to take away reproductive rights from women ARE misogynists.
*** Believing that it is wrong to abort a fetus is seperate from hating women. It’s closer to valuing the importance of human life. This is a complicated issue, it’s not black and white. I looked up McCain’s position on this issue, and that’s not black and white either. He believes in exceptions for rape, incest and welfare of pregnant woman. ***
John McCain falls into the second category.
Could you please provide some examples of the “hateful things SAID about Hillary” that were misogynistic?
If you can provide three solid examples then I’ll not only agree with you- but I’ll also post about it on Plunderbund.
Keep in mind…
mi·sog·y·ny: hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.
Joseph, you don’t have to remind me what misogyny is. You’re the one apparently having trouble seeing it, not me.
I don’t know what kind of scientific proof you’re looking for, but here, read this, and if you don’t believe it, there’s little else I can add to it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/14/AR2008051403090.html
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004041541_hillaryslurs29.html
From: http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011889.php
Carl Bernstein’s disgust at Hillary’s “thick ankles.” Hillary-hating 527 group, “Citizens United Not Timid” (What’s the acronym? Ding Ding Ding).
Goodbye to the HRC nutcracker with metal spikes between splayed thighs. If it was a tap-dancing blackface doll, we would be righteously outraged—and they would not be selling it in airports. Shame.
Goodbye to the most intimately violent T-shirts in election history, including one with the murderous slogan “If Only Hillary had married O.J. Instead!” Shame.
Goodbye to Comedy Central’s “Southpark” featuring a storyline in which terrorists secrete a bomb in HRC’s vagina. I refuse to wrench my brain down into the gutter far enough to find a race-based comparison. For shame.
Goodbye to the sick, malicious idea that this is funny. This is not “Clinton hating,” not “Hillary hating.” This is sociopathic woman-hating. If it were about Jews, we would recognize it instantly as anti-Semitic propaganda; if about race, as KKK poison. Hell, PETA would go ballistic if such vomitous spew were directed at animals. Where is our sense of outrage—as citizens, voters, Americans?
So you can’t name even one misogynistic thing the party or the Obama campaign did?
Not one?
Joseph, I was a fool to engage you.
But I won’t be a fool and support Obama.
I am being sincere and authentic,
and to you this is a joke. I hope you get
some enjoyment out of your meaningless sad
existence.
One last thing to you and anyone else
reading: “Hillary Clinton has been branded a “monster” by one of Barack Obama’s top advisers, as the gloves come off in the race to win the Democrat nomination.
In an unguarded moment during an interview with The Scotsman in London, Samantha Power, Mr Obama’s key foreign policy aide, let slip the camp’s true feelings about the former first lady.”
The greatest show of misogyny
happened when no one, not Obama’s people,
not the DNC, and not the main stream media
ever showed outrage and disgust at the
attacks on the most important and ground
breaking female politicians in U.S.
History.
This country does not value women, and that
is heart breaking.
are these voters mentally insane? are they really that pissed off about an offhand sweetie comment and the pretty much fair elections that have been held? do they really think john mccain is their man when it comes to women’s rights?
i think this is the exact form of divisive politics clinton preaches and obama ditches. if “clinton supporters count too” actually cause obama to lose, no doubt that will be seen as racism rather than a counter to sexism.
Aloha Ladies,
I am a Hillary Supporter in Hawaii who had the misfortune to catch Bill O’Reilly’s interview with Cynthia Ruccia and Kimberly Myers. Frankly, I am embarrassed and appalled that the two of them went on national television to represent female supporters of Hillary Clinton.
We all must look at the big picture. As much as I want Sen. Clinton to win the nomination, I believe we are witnessing an historic moment in time. We have the opportunity to see either a woman or an African American in the White House looking out for the interests of all the people of these United States. I believe that we must realize that unless the Democratic Party forms a united front, we will all be responsible for sending John McCain to the White House. Sen. McCain does not have the interests of the regular man in mind. While my loyalty is first to Sen. Clinton, my greater loyalty is to my family, the families of all “regular” families, and to the Democratic Party.
You do Hillary a disservice when you use airtime to “whine and complain” in an attempt to get your way. Contrary to what you obviously already believe, this primary campaign has been fair. Florida and Michigan broke the rules, Sen. Clinton agreed and signed off. Now that we’ve fallen behind in the race, many are saying we must not “disenfranchise” the voters of those two states. To blame Sen. Obama, who I believe has run a decent campaign, is not the answer. But most of all, if this group decides to follow suit and vote for Sen. McCain for the reasons you’ve mentioned, you do yourself and your families a disservice.
I saw the interview May 15th and it bothered me so much that I wasn’t able to rest last night. I felt I had to respond to your interview. And I must say, ladies, I am not with you on this.
We are women of strength, integrity, grace, and power! You gave all that away for your 15 seconds of fame.
Mahalo for your attention,
Mary Pearson
Mary Pearson,
I hear that the Obama campaign hired 400 bloggers to mollify the Clinton supporters and gain our vote. I wonder if you are one of them. I would not be surprised.
A true Hillary supporter would not use this sentence when speaking about another Hillary supporter:
“You do Hillary a disservice when you use airtime to “whine and complain” in an attempt to get your way.”
Perhaps you need to get more training in peace making.
Personally, I am so glad someone out there is giving us an outlet for our “whines and complaints”. Check out: http://wilknetwork.com/ Steven Corbett Radio Show..
By the way, if anyone here is interested, There’s finally a website for us disgruntled females and males who support Hillary to organize.
http://clintondems.com/
I heard that the Clinton campaign hired 500 commentors to go around posting made up nonsense on great blogs like this one.
I wonder if you are one of them, Anne-Marie. I would not be surprised.
I can’t believe we are even discussing voting for John McSame in the face of overwhelming challenges that are coming.
We have to get out of Iraq- which McSame wont do.
We have to get judges who are pro-choice on the SC -which McSame will not do
We need good sound policy moving foward on Global Warming -which McSame will not do.
I am a woman and when I hear things like this I want to scream to the Heavens! We have enough on our plate to accomplish and at the very least Obama wont seek to destroy women and all we have gained for the forseeable future. This is Operation Chaos write large and sad. I hope you this crazy silly season ends because I for believe that choice, the war and global warming are bigger issues than whether Hillary got a fair shake.
Joseph, you’re weak.
It’s so funny that the Obama people started this rumor about Hillary supporters to cover up their hiring of fake bloggers. How see through is that?
Perhaps the Clinton campaign also paid off that radio host in Pennsylvania and all the women that call it? (http://wilknetwork.com/ Steven Corbett Radio Show.)
I don’t think so. Remember Obama is the one with all your money to burn.
Response to Obama blog Open Letter to CSCT:
Hillary Clinton was vilified for being a woman, period. I don’t expect you to see this because you believe people who see this plainly & wish to empower themselves the only way they know how are petty and selfish. Obama supporters & MSM have tried to deny women their respect & power, so we’ll take that back & prove our empowerment.
Unfortunately, it’s not the right-wing that vilified Hillary, it’s the Obama supporters. How can we show they need to respect us and 50% of the Democratic Party? By not supporting their candidate. Got that? It would be too convenient and meaningless to them to illustrate that point by supporting their candidate. Women matter, our time is NOW. Not later.
Selfish-soapbox-pontification? Righteous-indignation? Spend one minute writing about the larger issue of sexism in America then tell ME about these things.
Let’s talk about violence against women in America, eh? How about the weekly reports of college women, hunted down by piggish men that rape and kill them? My experience with this came when I was 15 and I was kidnapped, raped and almost hung from a tree. Yes, hung from a tree…sounds like a lynching, no? 22 years later I gave birth to my second child. While in the hospital, my husband sent my older child, a 15 year-old daughter to a friends house. They disappeared for a day. Turns out 5 disgusting pieces of sh*t men/teen boys sexually assaulted her forcing her to perform oral sex on them. Nothing has changed in 22 years. TELL ME IT DOESN’T HURT. TELL ME IT’S PETTY. Tell me I can’t exert my peaceful boycott of this election and tell me more, that I can’t vote for whoever the hell I want to vote for. Women have been silent too long, I’ve been silent too long. You WILL hear us.
Many fine women fought for my right to vote for whomever and they fought for your right to vote Obama.
I’m a white, middle class woman and like it or not, we are suffering atrocities. And if you believe we are petty for acting out against the sexist bullies out there after we have all been bullied by bush for 8 years, you will believe it when you have McCain.
Thank you, but I will vote for whomever I want, it’s all the power we have right now thanks to the media and the Obamabots.
First off, Hillary is NOT the “Ron Paul” of the Democrats. She is not that far behind! The pressure for her to end the race is suspect at best! Second, the sexism that has pervaded the mainstream media’s coverage of Hillary – and ignored by the DNC - is nothing short of astonishing! I’m saddened to be part of a country and party that 1) is unaware of the signs of sexism and/or 2) doesn’t care. For example, I’ve spent months watching Hillary be chastised in the name of “she’s a Clinton.” I watched as people I thought were educated and progressive adults go along with these statements, utterly unaware how their decision to tie her identity with her husband (i.e. highlighted by those who call her Billary) is, itself, an incredibly sexist statement. This is NOT the 1800s and a woman is NOT defined by her husband. This is one of MANY, many sexist remarks that have emerged during this race that was SUPPOSE to be a historical time for TWO reasons. We’re still behind you Hillary & we know “the more experienced choice who is more capable of making change” when we see it. Let our own party force us out. Its far from the first time women (or gays or other pro-female communities) have had to walk our own path. God helps us all.
Michelle Obama said — if Hillary can’t control her own house, she can’t control the white house. It’s no surprise to women that other women can be as sexist as men. She was playing to the youth vote and perpetuating the stereotype of women as caregivers not leaders.
Obama supporters unfurled a sign at a Hillary rally that said “iron my shirts” which garnered a huge laugh from the media and from the Obama camp. Talk about an ideal momemnt for all the candidates to denounce sexism–but of course the denouncement never came. Hillary was left to laugh it off and move on just like every other woman in her position is left to deal with it on their own. For a man running for the President, he missed a great opportunity to stand up and do the right thing.
What was Ted Kennedy saying when he said no to the so-called dream ticket, “I think if we had real leadership — as we do in Barack Obama — in the number two spot as well, it’d be enormously helpful.” It sure sounds like he is saying that Hillary is not capable of being a leader. This is the same man who said that she was not responsible for CHIP or for the peace agreement in Northern Ireland during the 2007-2008 primaries–despite publicly thanking her several times for her work on both projects in the past. Is it sexism? You could argue it either way unless you’ve been in the workforce for awhile–unless you’ve seen this tactic used time and time again to promote a younger, less qualified male over an older, highly qualified female. Its impossible to understand the visceral reaction many women are having if you’ve not worked on a project for months only to have the “report” be given by a male who receives not only “credit” for your work but also a new title and a bigger paycheck then be accused of “not being a team player” when you object. After all, it is all about the success of the company (democratic party), not about the the egocentrical views of the workers (candidates), right?
Wow, not even sure that I should post here, as I see that people who have some well-thought out posts are attacked by Hillary posters.
I can’t believe that you and your group are actually talking about supporting McCain, a man whose views change depending on who is running his campaign at the time.
I’ve watched the campaigns with interest, and disillusion. I’ve lost most of my respect for HRC during this campaign season. She’s really shown how “Old Guard” she truly is. She does lie. She does exaggerate. She is part of the “business as usual” crowd that has dominated Washington. But, if she had won, I wouuld have voted for her in the national elections.
Are there any women of color in this new group, “Clinton Supporters”, or is it created, once again, by middle-class white women? Seriously, in the world of sexism and discrimination, where exactly do y’all fall?
Obama has not disrespected HRC, except when he was attacked, and even his attacks were nowhere near as vicious as HRC’s were towards him. He’s an intelligent, sensible man who will make a great President. Hopefully, the Clinton Supporters will not warrant enough media to do any damage.
I find Obama’s dismissive tone towards women unsettling. I cannot, without reservation, vote for a man who calls a woman “sweetie” when he’s running for the Presidency of the United States. Totally irresponsible and immature. Also, for Obama to say that his pastor has not been influential to him is pure hogwash. I too have not had a father presence most of my life, and the pastor I found, Dr. Charles Stanley, has served as a wonderful substitute to guide me in moral and Christian ways for the past 20 years, very similar to Obama’s timeframe. I heard Obama’s Pastor’s speech on NPR where he said “GD America.” I find it incredulous that Obama would not have found out about it. My Pastor (Pastor Tony) married my husband and me also (just like Obama’s Pastor), and I highly respect and agree with my Pastor. Otherwise, I have a choice and can leave (just like you said). I make the same assumption that Obama agrees with his Pastor, no matter what Obama says in public.
The bottom line is, I don’t respect or trust Obama …. for many reasons … his strong radical Muslim background and ties, condescending tone towards women (”sweetie”), elitist attitude (”can’t I just eat my pancakes” in Scranton, PA), drug addiction (in his book), not wearing a flag pin until cratering to peer pressure, and NOT PUTTING HIS HAND ACROSS HIS CHEST DURING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE! (among others … see DONTVOTEOBAMA.NET) I cannot in good conscience vote for him. I DON’T CARE WHETHER HE IS A DEMOCRAT, I DON’T FEEL HE IS A PATRIOT!
Hillary and McCain are both patriots. I have never voted for a Republican, but I will do what I believe is best for this country. I’ll even consider voting for Bob Barr of the Libertarian party. BUT I WILL ****NOT**** VOTE FOR OBAMA under any circumstances.
I have sent a letter to Hillary with the following:
“PLEASE KEEP GOING HILLARY! DON’T STOP … THE MORE THAT THE SUPER’S LEARN ABOUT OBAMA, THE MORE THEY WILL REALIZE HIS INEXPERIENCE AND EXTREMISM! PLEASE DON’T QUIT NOW!!
IF YOU DON’T WIN THE NOMINATION, PLEASE GO INDEPENDENT OR AS A WRITE-IN!
If you don’t win as a write-in, McCain wins, but many people will vote for McCain anyway if they can’t vote for you, so what’s wrong with this strategy??? I know the Democratic party probably will never forgive you, but who cares? What have you got to lose! You have everything to gain. WE’RE BEHIND YOU! It will not be the end of your political career. You are much too tough for that to happen.
Also, if you go as an Independent, there’s always a chance that you can win the vote. Look what happened with Lieberman!!
PLEASE DON’T LET US DOWN …. WE NEED YOU IN NOVEMBER!!!”
Jill- I hope you are keeping track of the IP addresses of these commentors.
Obama is a muslim? doesn’t wear a flag pin?
There is not way a Democrat would be posting lies like this.
It’s obviously an organized campaign.
You people just do not get it. Clinton has lost fair and square. Get with it you poor losers.
To the fella who spoke of the opportunistic candidate who left his wealthy wife for a wealthier woman… of course you mean that self proclaimed war hero, Hanoi John Kerry, correct? Gawd, how I love the artificial layers of plastic melting from the democrat facade as this race heats up. You pseudo-intellectual leftys amuse me so… THANKS!!!
Just checked out that website Kat posted.
Here are some of the other evil things Obama is associated with:
* He supports gay rights - including health benefits for same-sex partners
* His parents broke Miscegenation (mixed-race) laws when they married in the 60’s.
* He supports abortion rights
Obviously Kat - and I imagine a lot of the other people posting comments here - are crazy right wing nuts pretending to be concerned Democrats.
Don’t fall for it.
I will not vote for Obama,
I agree with Kimberly Myers, i am upset with the dems and if Hillary is not the nominee, i will go republican. This is one time i will not listen to hillary.
Sore losers and an embarassment to women. Where was all the complaints and sexism out cry before there was an Obama lead that was impossible to beat? Where is the outrage that all candidates, that includes Hillary signed agreements that MI/FL primaries do not count in fact are null and void. It is ok to disregard a signed primary election agreement because Hillary needs the votes? Chris Mathews gave an on air apology. Obama apologized for his sweetie remark. Not enough? We have bitter women complaining that Barack pulled out Hillary’s chair for her to sit during a debate and now a bunch of bitter losers crying sexism. Barack got just as many if not more racist attacks. I know this group of Hillary supporters is uneducated but please do your homework. How much Secret Service does Baraxck have vs. Hillary? You really have the nerve to say she has had a rouph ride because of sexism. Hillary lost because she ran a sloppy campaign–20 million dollars in debt is not because of sexism. It’s bad management skills. Please stop embarrassing women and the Democratic party. You make us ashamed. Grow up.
It certainly does look like some comments on this thread have nothing to do with valuing Hillary Clinton and everything to do with electing John McCain. And I simply must comment on Anne Marie’s assertion that
“**I am not arguing it. I see the difference with my own eyes. McCain is a good friend of Hillary’s and he has never nor do I believe will he ever disrespect her the way Obama and the DNC has.”
Well McCain certainly has said disrespectful things - hideous and awful things, not only about about Hillary, but also her then 18 year old daughter. At a GOP event in 1998 he told a Hillary/Chelsea/Reno joke so vicious that even when forced to report the story media outlets would not print the joke itself.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/azmqp
You gave your agenda away.
[…] Writes Like She Talks - which is listed as “very negative.” […]
I agree with Judy in #40.
To wit - “Hillary or Bust” Commenter: you don’t see your astroturf here because I’ve deleted it and I’ll do the same for anyone else. If you have something original and sincere, say it. If not, go to your own echo chamber. I will close off comments if all this thread ends up being is talking past one another. That’s not what “conversing” means.
I too, am sick of the way the democratic party has handled this mess. They have thrown Obama in our face. Bill Richardson makes me want to vomit. I know of about 30 women who will not vote for Obama and are leaving the democratic party because of the way Hillary has been treated and I am one of them. I will vote for McCain even though I have never voted Republican. Glad this organization got started, hope I can help.
These women seem to be missing the target. This is a case where they SHOULD be shooting the messenger. The MEDIA is the biased one and the party at fault. They are being manipulated into a suicide vote, for a candidate and party whose goals are completely against their own interests.
- Say good bye to Roe V. Wade when McCain stacks the court. And don’t count on what will likely be Democratic majorities in the Senate to stop him (Too many DINO’s there)
- Say good bye to any possible investigation of Bush Admin Criminality when McCain retains control of the corrupted Justice Department.
- Say good bye to any chance at peace in the Middle East (or around the world) soon and say good bye to more of your children marching off to die in the meat grinder of his War Machines gears.
- Say hello to continued Republican control of all the Executive Regulatory Branches and the continued dismantling of their watchdog functions (FAA, Food & Drug, etc.)
Finally, say hello to a plastic surgeon, because in my opinion, you will have cut off your face to spite your nose.
I am tired of hearing that it would not be fair to Obama to count Florida and Michigan as they stand, he is the one that refused a revote. If these states had counted, Hillary would have the momentum that she needs. If Obama was ahead in these states, the DNC would have already counted them. I think Hillary should run as an Independent and let Obama have the Democratic Party. I don’t appreciate Super-Delegates voting for me. I have had it with the Democratic Party, never again will I vote Democrat. I am 53 years old and have always been a Democrat but I am sickened by my party this year. Obama has been shoved down our throats by the Media and our party leaders. Michelle Obama for first lady, you have got to be kidding, would she be proud of her country for the second time in her adult life if this happens. What a joke the whole Democrat Party is.
I WILL NOT vote for Barack Obama because I want to watch those Obama worshipers CRY!!! Really, I can hardly stand these “cult followers”…..I have always voted Democrat…not this time…this will not change for me and about twenty-five other supporters. We have watched this worship and decided not to participate in Obama and his “perfect” wife. Hillary has been so demonized. I can hardly wait until Michelle keeps on talking….this is going to get actually funny…..meantime we will sit back and watch the king and his followers.
Judy and everyone reading. I don’t have an agenda, other than a personal one to do what I can to live in a world where all people are treated with dignity.
Here’s what Judy was referring to. It’s sad, but in context, it does not compare to what has come out in the current Democratic Primary season.
____________________________________
“Earlier this month [The source article was written in 1998, 10 years ago at the time of the Lewinsky scandal], at a Republican Senate fund-raiser, McCain told a…joke making fun of Janet Reno, Hillary Rodham Clinton and Chelsea Clinton.
“Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno.”
___________________________________
I am not naive. I am not considering voting for McCain because I think he is a feminist or because he is perfect. I am considering voting for him because he has not yet been tainted by participating in active campaigning on a national scale that makes use of negative gender stereotypes and misogyny for personal gain against the most important female politician in US history.
This is a case of what is appropriate to say in private to a group of friendly peers, vs. what you think is appropriate to say in public. He never called Hillary untrustworthy, dishonest and a monster on a national stage.
Remember who Hillary is. The most important female politician in US history to date. Name me one other woman, other than Eleanor Roosevelt who never ran for office, who is more important and accomplished in the world of US politics. Why doesn’t that mean anything to you, women Obama supporters? Why don’t you feel proud of accomplished women and empower them in a world where women only got the right to vote in 1920, less than 100 years ago? Why doesn’t first female president mean anything to you? It’s not like we’ve ever had any before. Why shouldn’t it be a woman’s turn now? Because Hillary is not perfect? Because she killed and ate babies? Because she’s never fought for the rights of minorities and women her entire professional life? (She has) Because she’s not smart enough, pretty enough? What is so wrong with her as a woman that makes her so different from any other male politician that’s come before, that you, as a woman can’t bring yourself to support? For your own good.
I hope that McCain is smart, and learns quickly: If Hillary is the nominee, he needs to stay away from abusing her the way Obama/MSM/DNC has if he wants to have a prayer to win. If she’s not the nominee, I hope he learns to be on his best behavior and even make an effort to reach out to women, because then he’ll have a lot to gain, and so will the women of this country. Respect for women should be rewarded. The Democratic Party and their favored son has failed in that arena, and won’t get rewarded with my vote.
People learn and change, especially if they want a big reward like the US Presidency. This is a great opportunity for me as a feminist to use my power of vote to create a meaningful change in our society.
I am not as eloquent as I could be, I hope you get what I am saying, but if you don’t get what I am saying, please ask me questions so I can clarify, if you are interested in a sincere and authentic discussion, and not just accusing me and dismissing me.
That article goes on to say:
“It…exposed how the Washington Post, New York Times and Los Angeles Times play favorites when reporting the foibles of our leading politicians.”
They are referring to how the media never printed that joke because McCain was a media darling. I guess the media has not changed much. They are biased about what they report, based on who they like, just like during this election season.
JUDY’s ORIGINAL POST
It certainly does look like some comments on this thread have nothing to do with valuing Hillary Clinton and everything to do with electing John McCain. And I simply must comment on Anne Marie’s assertion that
“**I am not arguing it. I see the difference with my own eyes. McCain is a good friend of Hillary’s and he has never nor do I believe will he ever disrespect her the way Obama and the DNC has.”
Well McCain certainly has said disrespectful things - hideous and awful things, not only about about Hillary, but also her then 18 year old daughter. At a GOP event in 1998 he told a Hillary/Chelsea/Reno joke so vicious that even when forced to report the story media outlets would not print the joke itself.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/azmqp
You gave your agenda away.
I’m an independent. I have been actively voting since 1968. I generally vote Democratic and was looking forward to it this election. I did not vote for G. Bush as I felt he was untested, pliable by other dominants and merely a puppet President, out of touch with middle America, too engaged with corporate elites although a poor performer while in the corporate venues, and not patriotic as evidenced by his “no show” attitude while in the Reserves. Bush was, and still is, very defensive when cornered on a subject. I feel much the same about Obama: I feel he is untested, pliable by other dominants and merely a puppet President, out of touch with middle America, too engaged with intellectual elites, and I do question his patriotism and emotional connection to this country and ALL the people who built it. Obama is very defensive when cornered on a subject. Bush was vague and ran the election process as a personality contest; although it did take the first silent coupe led by Scialia to actually win. Obama is vague and runs the election process as a personality contest; weak on specifics, strong on rhetoric and demonstrates to me a passive aggressive attitude to just about everything. This attitude has disenfranchised him to Ohio, Kentucky, West Virginia, Michigan and Florida. Both of Obama and Bush are far from the uniters they say they are and are naive on both a domestic and an international agenda.
I hate to vote for McCain this year after the last 8 years. I will absolutely not vote in another newbie, ie Obama, or one I have so many questions about. I strongly supported Clinton and still do. I feel she is the most experienced, has a solid grasp of the nuances of the issues, and can get things done. She is not a puppet. If Clinton were to be the nominee, she would get my vote. Otherwise, it will have to be a write in for Hillary..
As for the DNC? They can stick their head where to sun don’