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Where Jill Will Talk Like She Writes
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Don't Get Mad, Get Elected
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May
16
I don’t know about you, but I feel like my head is about to explode.
Some posts, some contact info. Let people know how you feel, preferably with some backup as to why, but please, also try to offer some solutions. What is it that you want? Because no matter how much I wanted Al Gore to win, and no matter how wrong I know the SCOTUS was, and no matter how much I didn’t want George Bush to be president, I live in this country and I accept it’s basic structure and the ways we have that allow us to voice our concerns, and solve our problems. Living in a democracy means someone will always “lose” an election. But it shouldn’t mean that we take out our disappointment by being self-destructive.
I understand that some people are afraid that giving any credence to Clinton Supporters Count Too will legitimize their efforts. Guess what? Too late. The source of their anger - sexism in the 2008 presidential primary campaigns - is real. It’s their tactics that are unreal.
So what can anyone do? For one thing, let them get it out. Just let them. Read it, respond to it you like, but my recommendation: don’t make moves that escalate it. That’s a no-win move. The best reaction would be to understand it, but it’s very clear that many people don’t have a clue about how to do that. Then, consider solutions that you would accept if you were in their shoes. It’s fine to say, what you want, you may not be able to get. But here’s what you can get. And here’s what you will lose if you don’t find a better way to resolve your anger.
1. Read this column.
2. Read this post.
3. Contact Clinton Supporters Count Too:
More contacts info here.
4. Leave a comment on one or all of these blog posts (and find more by going here - I’ve just included a few):
Buckeye State Blog here and here
The Mahablog (highly recommended)
5. Got more ideas? Put them in the comments.
6. Whatever you do, be smart - don’t shut down the conversation, don’t tell people to get over it and don’t call anyone sweetie while you are making your case for how you see the Clinton Supporters Count Too effort. That’s what got us here in the first places eons ago.
Today, I’ve got a speaking engagement and a child returning from a three-day class trip, and an all-day symposium with Eleanor Clift in Akron tomorrow. So I can’t say how much I’m going to be skipping around commenting and checking on this.
But seriously - if you cannot identify with how these voters are feeling - if you don’t understand why they are feeling that way - then you might want to consider not addressing them at all. Because right now, the anger will keep them from being able to hear pretty much all of us. But eventually, they will be ready. And if we want to win in November, we damn well better not blow it when they are. This does not mean they get what they want, which I’m assuming is Clinton as the nominee. It means that they get treated like the voters they are, with respect.
Sphere: Related ContentBy Jill Miller Zimon at 12:10 pm May 16th, 2008 in Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Gender, Democrats, Social Issues, Campaigning, Ohio, Elections, Women, Civil Rights, Politics
Comments
108 Responses to “The relevance of Clinton Supporters Count Too”
There are thousands who won’t vote for Obama under any circumstances. The misogyny has been so extreme in the last five months, they feel like battered women. Smart women never go back. It’s as simple as that.
I don’t advocate voting for McCain but writing in Hillary.
Give your neighbor a Kleenex and a McCain campaign button.
I am dumbfounded…
There is an opportunity to either break the ceiling of gender to elect our first female president or elect our first african american president. There is so much cult of personality here, that people are loosing sight of the bigger picture. There is sexism and their is racism in this country, and it doesn’t move either cause forward if there is a tit for tat…
Four more years of republicans. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I wept when GWB stole the election and again when he won in ‘04… I couldn’t fathom that people believed the lies. Those of you who are saying “I will vote for McCain” are poster chilren for Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannnity. And, pardon if this is overly dramatic… but you will have the blood of those who die in Iraq on your hands, not to mention the regression of women’s right to choose on your conscious.
This is not about Clinton, it is not about Obama. Either one would be inifinitely better than being subjected to another republican ruler. Please look beyond yourselves.
This is not about racism. Once and for all, this isn’t about YOU, okay?!
This is about SEXISM! It’s about a truly great candidate being written off by the DNC for an inexperienced, unknown candidate who, when looked at through the lens of a presidential candidacy, appears more and more like a truly untenable person for that position - one whom I, and millions of others, could NEVER VOTE FOR REGARDLESS OF WHICH PARTY PROMOTES HIM!
Given this situation, it is clearly sexist for the DNC to shove Hillary out the back door, without so much as a by-your-leave, when she is a known fighter for the American people.
THAT’S WHAT IT’S ALL ABOUT!
There is no way you will ever convince me or millions of other women that, given the same circumstances, a man in this position would be handed his hat and told to skeedaddle.
Now, how about you Obama supporters coming on over to OUR way of thinking instead of expecting “the little ladies” to play nice and get in line?! Hmmmmmm? Just a thought.
And THAT’S DR. “SWEETIE”, TO YOU!
Jill, actually I don’t identify at all with them, because I’ve supported the losers most of the time in the nomination races, but understand that you can’t always get your way in a democracy. I voted for Gary Hart in 1984, and would have supported Gore in 1988 and Tsongas in 1992 and Dean in 2004, had they still been viable options at the time of the Ohio primary. I was disappointed every time and not optimistic many of those times (I never believed Kerry would win), but I’ve still voted for the better candidate in November. All I’m seeing is mindless anger at Obama and baseless accusations that he’s run a sexist campaign, not any sort of positive endorsement of McCain.
Clinton is losing fair and square, not because the “DNC” or anyone decreed it to be so. And no Leela, the reason I’m a Democrat is to avoid the bigots, so I would never cast a vote for a race baiter–not for Reagan nor for Bush the first nor for Hillary. So I can’t come over to your side. A Democratic party that nominated a race baiter would no longer be my party.
Grow up.
I support Hillary and will be very unhappy if she doesn’t secure the nomination. However, I’ll be far more unhappy if McCain gets elected. At least Obama’s record on women’s issues is solid — McCain would be a disaster.
I feel like those of you who want to vote for McCain are willing to brutalize your allies (and our daughters) just to derail the chances of a dem getting in to the White House.
If you want to protest, I beg you, please find a way with less collateral damage and fewer friendly-fire casualties.
Our daughters will not be overly brutalized by 4 years of McCain, but rather by a society that is still so steeped in misogyny that even women join in the degradation of other women.
I can never support a candidate (Obama) who stands blithely by and refuses to object to sexual bigotry, all the while benefiting from it. It’s hypocritical and disgusting behavior that, as far as I am concerned, completely guts his credibility.
I will continue to work hard and contribute my money to make HRC the nominee - and should that not happen, I will write in “Hillary Clinton” come November. As much as I want a Democrat in the White House, I’d rather see us lose and perhaps walk away chastened by our willingness to avert our eyes at such a blatant injustice.
As much as I want a Democrat in the White House, I’d rather see us lose and perhaps walk away chastened by our willingness to avert our eyes at such a blatant injustice.
You mean you’d rather women lose the right to choose? Because make no mistake, that’s what a McCain presidency would mean.
John Paul Stevens is 88 years old. If a Republican gets to nominate his replacement, then the Supreme Court will have a majority in favor of overturning Roe v. Wade
Hillary didn’t lose this race because of sexism, although I agree there was some of that. She lost this race because she hired an awful campaign manager who gave her terrible advice. Mark Penn thought California was a winner-take-all state, which it hasn’t been since 1972. If I were her, I’d ask for my money back.
it’s not sexist to get your inevitable ass kicked in a primary.
My anger over the last few months has only intensified with each act of condescension, slimey fingerpointing, and smooth flashtalk from Senator Obama. I used to think that I could vote for him, but his arrogance and cavalier attitude disgust and scare me. If Hillary is not the nominee, I am writing her in.
“Our daughters will not be overly brutalized by 4 years of McCain”
Check the ages of the current justices on the SC and please reconsider that.
“I can never support a candidate (Obama) who stands blithely by and refuses to object to sexual bigotry, all the while benefiting from it.”
It’s not his job to protect her against sexism any more than it is her job to protect him against racism. Hillary has had to endure blatantly sexist comments from the MSM and things like those absurd nutcracker dolls and the jackasses with the “iron my shirt” signs. Obama has had to endure bomb threats and vandalism. Neither of them has had it easy.
While I still think Hillary is the better candidate, I will definitely vote for Obama if he winds up being the nominee and it frustrates me to no end that those who I have worked beside in support of Hillary are going to do something so absurd and destructive as to work for McCain. I’m sure Hillary would be disgusted and saddened at what you are doing in her name.
P. Springer - for the record, I would say that your comments most closely mirror my feelings on the situation. Thanks for reading and commenting. And if you have thoughts about how to turn this situation into an opportunity, I am all ears (well, eyes).
“It’s about a truly great candidate being written off by the DNC for an inexperienced, unknown candidate”
She is a truly great candidate but, come on, the DNC didn’t write off Hillary. She competed against her opponents under a set of rules that everyone agreed upon at the start and under those rules, she has fallen behind Obama. If you want to blame someone, blame who I blame: Mark Penn. He was a complete and utter disaster and I hope he doesn’t get a dime for all his “help.”
Wiley - thanks for the comment - again, like with P. Springer, what you write closely parallels my feelings.
Besides saying grow up (because I think we know that’s unfortunately not going to be too persuasive - would that it were though!), what can we do - how do we turn this into some kind of opportunity?
None of the Obama supporters posting on this site seem to be taking your advice, Jill. I’m not surprised.
It’s ironic that you’re appearing with Clift. She’s been particularly vicious in her attacks on Clinton.
I’ve worked for and voted for reproductive choice for my entire adult life. So has Hillary Clinton. Barack Obama was more interested in protecting his political future than he was in making a moral statement when he refused to take a stand on some issues involving choice when he was in the IL state senate.
Obama, his supporters and the DNC need to understand how serious this issue is when people like me will risk a McCain Supreme Court nominee rather than vote for Obama.
I can hear myself in some of these pleas to hold my nose and vote for Obama to avoid losing Roe. That has been used on us ever since Roe became law and I for one just don’t care anymore. If the second and third wave feminist’s don’t care about sexism why should I keep putting my butt on the line for them. I am 65 years old and am tired of waiting my turn, therefore, this time I will not hold my nose and vote for some one who truly offends me….no more ladies, no more.
If we loose Roe than so be it, maybe the young women need a lesson in how hard it is to maintain rights that were secured for them by us. We endured being called every name in the book, having our womanhood being questioned, marching in the streets of DC, being fired, yes , and more. Lets see them do it for a change and maybe they won’t take it so casually anymore.
Tess - I know - they are as deaf as the next person but truly that will be a problem for them that they’ll have to deal with. I am trying hard to find a way into a few folks in the Obama campaign - we’ll see. Worst they can do is say no - and I’ve heard that before.
A note on Clift: I didn’t appear with her at all. The group hosting the symposium invited me to cover the event as a blogger - which I did. I then interviewed Clift. She was excellent - and actually quite sympathetic I thought toward Clinton during the presentation. I confess that I haven’t read a ton of her stuff during this election - just a bit here and there.
I agree with you 100% re: the need for Obama, his supporters and the DNC to understand how serious this issue is. I think the key however is going to be, figuring out what the solution is.
I just don’t think it works to say, it’s our candidate or we’ll mutiny. I just can’t support that.
P. Springer,
Hillary has been held responsible for the vast majority of the racist attacks on Obama by his campaign and his supporters. Obama, himself, has framed Clinton as a racist.
I agree that Mark Penn doesn’t deserve a dime but that’s not the issue.
That’s interesting Kathryn, what you write.
But I would like to ask you one thing - to clarify - are you saying that Obama offends you or McCain, when you write, “therefore, this time I will not hold my nose and vote for some one who truly offends me….no more ladies, no more.”?
I share you exasperation at the effect of what we thought would be good, gender-neutral evolution. But i’m sure like you, we imagine gender-neutral meaning void of all sexism, not saying, “it’s unpleasant but it happens.”
I’m giving an extreme amount of energy to that issue and don’t know what yet exactly to do - but everywhere I go, I raise the issue and listen to how others feel about that and why. Because think how far we have to go if we’re just realizing this difference between us now?
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Jill: My guess is that Clinton herself will have to set the tone; I imagine most of her supporters will take her cues, even those who currently are saying no way.
One thing I’m noticing is that there’s a disconnect between some of the angrier HRC supporters saying that sexism is at work here, and the apparent lack of any such talk coming out of the Clinton campaign itself. I think they realize they made mistakes. And let’s face it: women are a majority of all voters and an even bigger majority of voters in Democratic primaries. Obviously Obama has attracted a significant amount of female support or he never could have gotten to this point. I doubt the women who voted for Obama would appreciate being told that they’re self-hating or abetting sexism.
There’s an idea: perhaps female Obama supporters could take the lead in the “outreach” process.
“if you have thoughts about how to turn this situation into an opportunity, I am all ears (well, eyes).”
I’m crossing my fingers and waiting until after the 3rd to see what lady in the pants suit says.
Whatever happens, I have every expectation that she will work her heart out to make sure we aren’t stuck with McCain. I hope that the folks who are threatening to vote for McCain will continue to be inspired by her and follow her lead.
P. Springer - yes - I’ve been saying that I believe it won’t got past June 3 though I have to say, sometimes, when I see or her Clinton, I get pretty concerned. I understand the fight, the not wanting to give in, but it really is going to have to be Solomon’s Choice here.
First off I want to clearly state that I am a BLACK MALE and I wholeheartedly agree with the anger, frustration, and dissapointment Hillary supporters and women in general feel. I cannot believe this is actually happening. This was suppossed to be Hillariy’s presidency. And while I know nothing in life is guaranteed the rise of Obama and fall of Hillary is too hard to fathom.
Eight years ago didn’t we elect an inexperienced charasmatic man for president over a more experienced though less flashy man? And we also didn’t elect a man who already had experience in the White House (although he was VP) over one who had none at all. So we trash the Republicans for doing this then 8 years later us as Democrats do the same thing again??? We pick and inexperienced charasmatic man over an experienced less flashy woman?? A woman who has had experience in the White House (first lady or not). History truely is repeating itself.
I agree there has been ALOT of sexism directly and indirectly during this campaign. For the most part Obama has had a free ride and everyone has blown his head up making him think He’s Jesus or something. Yeah he took a little heat but only after the press was called out on the lack of heat directed to him. Loyalties have been broken, former Clinton allies have become Judas towards her. And for the love of God why is it so sensitive for you to bring up race rather he is black or not? It’s ok for over 90% of my people to blindly support Obama but anytime Hillary, Bill or anyone for that matter brings up race It’s wrong? Nobody EVER gets 90% of a vote for any demographic It’s too disproportionate. Blind following the blind without even looking into the person.
Having said that women are to blame too. Imagine if 90% of women supported Clinton. She would be our nominee. Women unlike Afican Americans aren’t as loyal to a cause. I had a female co-worker who was mad at me for supporting Hillary. She said women cant be President because women are weak! I told her that for her to say that means that she has a low self esteem and low self image of herself. Some women demand rights while others believe a woman should stay in their place and be quiet and submissive. If women are dissapointed about this election they should be most dissapointed with themselves first.
I personally think Obama is weak and in over his head. He’s like that cute guy in high school who is attractive, charasmatic, wheels you in and tells you everything you ever wanted to hear and ultimately delivers nothing. Hillary may be strong and firm and maybe even as some call her a b—h but at least we know where she stands. To get up everyday and FIGHT in spite of all the negativity, nay sayers, backstabbers and smile and campaign hard as she is shows me she is a leader. Thats who I want running this country.
Now on a controversial note…I think Obama is the Anti-christ. Comes outta nowhere overnight, mixed, soars to poularity and speaks of peace. Don’t tell anyone I said that before I recieve death threats. Unless something unbelieveable happens I WILL NOT support Obama in the fall. As a male I am just as sickened and disgusted as many of you are. No I dont want Mccain in their either but I could be wrong but something about Obama just isn’t right to me. After hearing so many in my race call me a sellout, loser e.t.c. for supporting Hillary (im sorry I have an identity and dont support people for reasons unfounded) I will do almost anything (within reason) to ensure he dosent win. As much as I hate to say it I’d rather have Mccain in. Who knows Obama may go on to be the greatest President of all time but I am a major doubter and skeptic. The presidency of the United states IS NOT a popularity contest!! Change? Do people honestly believe he’s gonna get in there and make the sun shine and birds chirp again? Do they not know about legislation and voting and getting bills passed and catering to lobbiest e.t.c.
“Hillary has been held responsible for the vast majority of the racist attacks on Obama by his campaign and his supporters.”
I’ve never seen anything suggesting that Hillary or her supporters had anything to do with the bomb threats or the vandalism.
When all is said and done, I don’t believe Obama thinks Hillary is a racist any more than Hillary thinks Obama is a sexist. The media tends to dumb everything down into soundbites, takes them out of context, and then deconstructs them endlessly in the most sensational way possible.
“Barack Obama was more interested in protecting his political future than he was in making a moral statement when he refused to take a stand on some issues involving choice when he was in the IL state senate.”
His “present” votes were part of a strategy he had worked out with the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council. For more info, see:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200712140004
Jill, I agree with Kathryn. Some people have to learn the hard way.
Clinton is a politician and loves the Democratic Party. I’m sure that she would prefer that we all support Obama. It’s not going to happen. It’s not all about Clinton. It’s about the way women are viewed in this society. If my own “family” of Democrats won’t treat me with respect, then I’m going to find another family.
I honestly don’t think that there is anything that Obama can do. You could encourage him to apologize for flipping off Hillary in his oh-so-adolescent, passive-aggressive way but he won’t do it.
Thank you for being so civil.
It saddens me that, in politics, people feel it’s not enough to support one’s own candidate, one must tear down their opponents. It entrenches the “us vs. them” mindset that is so destructive to solving the problems that plague our country.
ken: “We pick and inexperienced charasmatic man over an experienced less flashy woman??”
If it were experience that people were after in this election cycle then Biden would be the nominee. As much as I think Hillary is the superior candidate, it was shrewed of Obama, in light of 7 years with the worst president in modern history and congressional approval ratings at historic lows, to frame himself as a change candidate and Washington outsider. If Penn was worth his salt (let alone his fee), he would have recognized this and Hillary would have been the nominee months ago.
ken: “I personally think Obama is weak and in over his head.”
That doesn’t show from the way he has managed his campaign and his resiliency in dealing with the obstacles it has faced.
ken: “Now on a controversial note…I think Obama is the Anti-christ.”
To be honest, it’s less controversial than nutty. Apologies for my ad hominem slur but, come on!
P. Springer,
I didn’t suggest that Clinton or her supporters had been accused of making bomb threats or engaging in vandalism.
I’ve seen the media matters explanation before. Have you bothered to read it? Obama voted present to avoid taking a principled stand on issues of choice. Period. That’s exactly what I said.
Obama’s only conviction seems to be that he will say or do anything that he has to do to get elected.
“Obama voted present to avoid taking a principled stand on issues of choice. Period. That’s exactly what I said.”
I think you are confusing the Solomon article and Media Matters’ comments. Obama was doing exactly what Planned Parenthood asked him to do.
Quoting…
As ABCNews.com reported on July 17, Obama voted “present” on the two parental notification bills in 2001 “with the explicit support of the president and CEO of Illinois Planned Parenthood Council.” The Chicago Sun-Times further reported on December 4 that the “goal” of the strategy was “to entice moderate Republicans and Democrats to also vote present, helping to defeat the bills.” The article quoted Sutherland saying of Obama, “The poor guy is getting all this heat for a strategy we, the pro-choice community, did.”
I’m not confusing anything. Obama went to great lengths to avoid being seen as a supporter of some elements of reproductive choice. He demonstrated a lack of leadership and conviction.
“Speaking to ABC News as Obama was preparing to join Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and the wife of Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., in addressing Planned Parenthood’s national conference in Washington, D.C., Sutherland said Obama approached her in the late 1990s and worked with her and others in crafting the strategy of voting “present.” She remembers meeting with Obama outside of the Illinois Senate chambers on the Democratic side of the aisle. She and Obama finished their conversation in his office.
“He came to me and said: ‘My members are being attacked. We need to figure out a way to protect members and to protect women,’ ” said Sutherland in recounting her conversation with Obama. “A ‘present’ vote was hard to pigeonhole which is exactly what Obama wanted.”
“What it did,” she continued, “was give cover to moderate Democrats who wanted to vote with us but were afraid to do so” because of how their votes would be used against them electorally. “A ‘present’ vote would protect them. Your senator voted ‘present.’ Most of the electorate is not going to know what that means.”
While Sutherland was happy to give Obama latitude in voting “present,” rather than “no,” she was quick to note that “it’s also not a ‘yes’ vote.”
As reported by The Wall Street Journal, some of the specific abortion votes in question include two occasions in 1997 (HB 382 and SB 230) when he voted “present” on bills which would have prohibited a procedure referred to by its critics as “partial-birth abortion.” In 2001, he voted “present” on two parental notification abortion bills (HB 1900 and SB 562), and he voted “present” on a series of bills (SB 1093, 1094, 1095) that sought to protect a child if he or she survived a failed abortion.”
********************************
The most disturbing part of this article was the notion that Obama intended to deliberately keep the people he represented ignorant of his actions and their consequences.
Tess, from the text you quoted: ““What it did,” she continued, “was give cover to moderate Democrats who wanted to vote with us but were afraid to do so” because of how their votes would be used against them electorally.”
You’re completely dismissing their strategy. If they had voted ‘yes’ it would have had a good chance of leading to them being voted out of office and replaced by anti-choice candidates. Don’t forget how controversial issues like partial-birth abortion and parental notification are for much of the electorate.
It’s pragmatic, not unprincipled. This sort of thing happens all of the time in politics.
P. Springer,
Yes, P., that’s exactly what happens in politics. That’s what happened when Hillary Clinton argued against NAFTA to her husband and his aides and then worked for it once the final decision had been made. Obama has repeatedly used that “paragmatic” response against Hillary Clinton. His campaign has portrayed her as untrustworthy when she acted pragmatically.
Obama sucked in millions of supporters by pretending to be “above it all” when he’s actually very good at playing dirty.
The bottom line is that Clinton would be the better president. Obama has repeatedly attacked her character and employed sexist language for political purposes. Voters, particularly, women should not reward those kinds of tactics. We need to stand up for ourselves. Clearly, we can’t rely on the media or Senator Obama to set appropriate standards of behavior.
[edited due to threat/curse expressed toward other individuals]
EXPLAIN TO GOD WHY YOU VOTED MCCAIN!
Thanks for the info. I contacted them and offered financial support, as well as to volunteer for the ground effort should Obama and his cohorts succeed in gaming this nomination.
“Hillary will work her heart out for Obama if he is the candidate”
Yes, she probably will, but I was here in Florida and saw how hard she worked for Kerry in 2004. At least in my area, she worked harder for him than he worked for himself. Look where that got her.
I’m voting for Hillary one way or the other–either with her name on the ballot or as a write in. Obama has done NOTHING to deserve the nomination (unless you count giving inspiring speeches).
Re: Comment #33
I edited that comment because it included an all upper-case threat/curse targeting other people.
The Blood of All Innocent Men, “”Women”" and Children who Die in “Iraq” Will Be On Your Ballots’ Hand…..
God will not be mocked!
Please tell me how women who care so much for “women’s rights” would vote for McCain. I don’t think you all care much about sexism. I think that is your EXCUSE. What has Barack done to hurt your “cause”? McCain is going to add judges who will take away your right and your daughters right and your grand daughters right to choose. But that doesn’t matter right….. McCain plans to continue this fake war in Iraq that was supposedly started because the terror attacks on the USA then because of fake weapons of mass destruction but you don’t care about that either right. McCain thinks that the average American is better off today then 8 years ago but that doesn’t matter because you agree with that. This little fake campaign of yours is annoying. Your a bunch of bitter women(probably men) who will hurt this county because you didn’t get what you want. I am a Black…women… single mother… of a daughter… who supports Clinton and I will ABSOLUTELY vote Obama if he is the nominee because I am NOT DUMB ENOUGH TO VOTE AGAINST MY BEST INTEREST! You people need to stop lying to the people of this great nation!
Will one person please tell me two things Obama has done that was sexist.
Everyone seems to think the Democratic party will be united once we have the convention. I don’t even want to be a Democrat any more. I cannot and will not vote for Obama. The man has no experience. He doesn’t know how to do any of the things he claims he can. He is arrogant and condescending. Also, he was always a negative campaigner. He was like the little girl who throws a rock and then hides her hand. Does anyone remember his “Bush, Cheney lite” comment? He started it, and then would cry foul, along with the media, helping him to get er done.
I have always liked McCain. He really is in the middle, despite his recent pandering to the far right. I’m going to switch parties to become an Independent because for the first time, Nebraska switched to the caucus system, which was a complete sham. We were shouted down and told our votes would not count. Many Clinton voters got up and left. We were robbed. I will not be going to another caucus, since there is no requirement for caucus goers to be registered voters. We don’t know who those people were. No one showed id. We don’t know if the were Republicans, Democrats or Martians. It was ridiculous.
So, the Democratic party can take the female vote for granted all it wants. I asked to be removed from their mailing list, and I am very happy to see the rise of Clinton Supports Count Too. I feel my voice and my vote has been silenced. So, I want to see the web site. Even though I’m unemployed, I’ve been supporting Clinton with my small donations. I’ll be happy to see them go towards the defeat of Obama. But don’t ask me not to vote for McCain. I think if I vote for McCain, my vote will count.
SK Booker
I will never, ever vote for Obama in November if Hillary is not on the ticket. Part of this is a protest against Hillary’s treatment, and part of this is the fact that I think Obama is downright dangerous. He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I’ve done my homework. He is corrupt and charismatic, and the combination of those two qualities is political dynamite. I’ll take my chances of a moderate Republican over the cult-like tide that is pushing Obama forward.
And BTW, who said I was going to vote FOR McCain? I may write Hillary in. I may vote for a third party candidate. I have not yet decided, but one thing is for sure: I will NOT vote for Obama without Hillary. So you folks who keep calling for party unity need to stop chiding Hillary supporters and start calling on Obama to ask Hillary to be his VP (SHOULD he win the nomination, which is not certain). Because that is the ONLY chance in hell he has of winning in November.
I agree that there has been way too much sexism over the course of this campaign. I also agree that registering a protest of some kind is a worthwhile endeavor. I disagree, however, that jeopardizing a dem win in the GE is the way to do it. Beside the obvious problem that you punish all dems through your protest, you let the media, who were by far the worst offenders, completely off the hook. If anything, you provide them with a spectacle about which they can make more sexist observations and further boost their ratings.
I think it’s time that ‘winning’ is not the goal -we have let things go for all too long- having the fear card of what will happen if a republican gets in make us ‘get in line’ all too often.(we survived even Bush)
I have been a life long dem - very loyal - but I can no longer look away!!!! I am a woman and I want women to count!!!!
We should face that the Democratic party is corrupt in many ways- run by mostly middle-aged white men in the back rooms who only think of winning not making life better for all-so what we need is real change ( not B. O.’s BS. - he is a very political animal, not a savior!)- change how the dems do things - make it a party of the people - a party women have their real share of the say. We woman can only do that if we make our power felt, just like consumers , who refuse to buy a product! We can demand more female candidates, we can demand to do away with super delegates.Demand revotes in Michigan & Florida. We can demand that the media listen up!
Women issues cross all racial and economical lines - every person on this earth was born of a woman and yet how much of the world stage do we get? How can we help the suffering of women in the world if we don’t stand up for ourselves here? (Even if you do not support Hillary, as women we should let our outrage be known at the media bias)
Look around and be honest, where do we as women really stand? how many Supreme Crt Judges, how many CEO’s, are we 50/50 in congress, etc.? Are we so afraid of confrontation? Is that it?
IT IS TIME TO ROCK THE BOAT AND LEARN HOW TO SWIM!
Another ’sweetie’ who says NO to towing the line, no vote for B. O. or status quo!
“having the fear card of what will happen if a republican gets in make us ‘get in line’ all too often.(we survived even Bush)”
Survived? Barely. Bush has been an unmitigated disaster. We are worse now than we were 7 years ago by virtually every metric by which one can measure a country.
“We should face that the Democratic party is corrupt in many ways- run by mostly middle-aged white men in the back rooms who only think of winning not making life better for all-so what we need is real change”
Hmmm, even if that were the case, how exactly does that differentiate them from the Republican party?
“Even if you do not support Hillary, as women we should let our outrage be known at the media bias”
Okay, I’m with ya on that.
I am not voting for Obama. Watching him sit by and capitalize on sexism in the media and laughing while his gruppies boo’ed when the has been Edwards was giving a speech were intolerable. The only power we have is solidarity and resolve.
Maybe the next DNC primary will treat all voters and candidates with dignity.
I am looking forward to watching Obama and all his mean bullying supporters fall in November.
I personally will not vote for Obama based on his voting record in Ill. and his lack of voting record in US Senate. By the way if you look at his voting record in Ill you will see that many of the bills passed in the Ill senate was work done by others and it was all pushed through in the year before he ran for the US senate. This is a brokered election. He talks about being for the poor people but all of his backers are rich college educated supporters. What does that tell you. He is backed by some of the longest term politicans in this governemnt yet talks about turning the page. Yet he is beginging all of those elected officals with him.
I will be writing in Hillary’s name on the ballot in Nov. because Obama will drive this country into the ground with all of his policies.
His pl;ans will cost the American people 1 trillion dollars. It will raise our taxes and we will all be affected by these actions. if his backers are all rich college educated supporters they can afford these increrases but the ones who pay all the bills for this country will be taxed on our 401K’s and saving.
Reading these comments leaves me somewhat perplexed. First, I supported Clinton, but primarily for two reasons:
first, she had the best positions on issues and second, the absolute necessity that the Republican party not be allowed back in the White House. The fact that Clinton is also a woman was, for me personally, a plus, but not more important per se than the other points.
Now, Clinton probably will not get the nomination. Why people now threaten to support McCain leaves me speechless. I understand, though find lacking, the simple excuse that “I wanted Clinton because she’s a woman and therefore will let my personal disappointment cause me to vote for McCain”. Such a person is probably not a hard core Democrat. More distressing are people who now try and drum up reasons to not support Obama. They are shallow.
He is not sexist, as the absence of any examples of it provided here show. In fact, he often took the high road when Clinton took the low road (her piling on over Wright and Ayers at the ABC debate, for instance). As for petulance ruling the day: acting like a 10 year old who didn’t get the gift she wanted is not good for the country, the party and most of all, women. And Obama would not
appoint another Roberts or Alito to the court. And it’s not all about Roe, it’s about the string of decisions from this court which have been detrimental to women: health, workplace, eduction, children, etc.
There’ll be another woman to run, believe me. And as importantly, more and more women in positions of political importance. But we need to realize that the next 4 years are critical. Please don’t let hurt feelings override reason and what’s in the best interests of women.
Denise - Your point(s) echo the misinformation that is being spread by the Republican party. Of which I suspect you are a member. Why? Because there is very little difference between Hillary and Obama on key issues. So you can’t raise the bogus “cost/taxes” issue as a reason to oppose Obama when they would also lead you to oppose Hillary. Besides the fact
that they are bogus issues, it does look like some trolling
is taking place here. As for Obama’s Illinois record, well, what counts is what he’d do in the White House. You can find that on his web site if you care to go there.
Danielle - At least let’s be fair. When the booing began at the Edwards speech, Obama raised his hand and signaled for them to be quiet…..and as one who watched when Hillary gave her speech in West Virginia, when she first mentioned Obama there was similar booing. That’s a reality of politics, that’s a reality of a race where emotions have been high. I voted for Hillary, I wanted her to win. But I also recognized her campaign made mistakes. She wasn’t “bullied”, she wasn’t a victim of sexism. Sure, Matthews took some hits at her, but that didn’t effect the outcome. And nothing Hillary underwent even begins to compare what occurred with Jeremiah Wright (nor the attempts to somehow make William Ayers an issue). And what about the two times she actually compliemented McCain in order to argue Obama wasn’t “ready”. No, there’s a lot of things to regret, on both sides. That’s why we now need to come together. And we can.
“He talks about being for the poor people but all of his backers are rich college educated supporters. What does that tell you.”
That rich, college educated people are just as capable as the rest of us of wanting our country, and everyone in it, to prosper in the long term.
One thing that’s worth considering is that it’s still possible for Hillary to get the nomination. If she does, we’re definitely going to need the Obama folks if we want Hillary to win in the GE.
Denise - How does Obama’s policies differ from Hillary’s?
You claim (and it’s a bogus Republican talking point) “costs/taxes” are the reason for your opposition. So, how would Hillary “cost” less? Unless you never were for her either.
P.Springer - I believe Obama has received millions of contributions of under $100 from the little people. Hillary has done well in that regard too. The person receiving the big donations is McCain.
And, for what it’s worth, college professors don’t have the big bucks to donate either (and the limit is $2,300 in case you don’t know about the limits on personal donations).
So, while I do agree with the need for unity, no matter who wins it, at least let’s stay in the realm of realism.
“Denise - Your point(s) echo the misinformation that is being spread by the Republican party. Of which I suspect you are a member.”
Hehe, that is my suspicion as well. Whether or not it’s the case in this instance, I have no doubt that mixed among the folks voicing their real concerns are a few GOP operatives working to exacerbate the divide in our party by making incendiary comments and spreading misinformation. If they’d use their energy for something positive they might be able to recover from the sorry shape they are currently in. Sadly, that’s just not their way.
I can’t believe how many people are actually feigning a “What sexism?” tone. If you haven’t seen the sexism against Hillary Clinton on tv from day one, you either don’t know what it is, or you just plain agree with it. That is unfortunate because it looks like payback time is about to come your party’s way.
P Springer - don’t put down the real discontent by crying out “GOP operatives” Just what are your motives??? “Hmmm, even if that were the case, how exactly does that differentiate them from the Republican party?” The point is - we should be different from the repub party!
What- should we do nothing???
Cut off the tip of a tumor and it will grow and spread - why are you so afraid of real change- no matter who is in office, its up to us to get off, or stay off our butts and do our part!!!!
New York Woman,
I was marching for Roe when you were probably in kindergarten. Women’s rights begin but do not end with control of our reproductive systems. In this new century, I’m not willing to reward a member of my own political party with my vote when he can’t be bothered to show me a minimum of courtesy.
As to the Iraq Way, I opposed it from the start. I don’t want to see it continued anymore than you do but we don’t need a Democratic president to end it. We need a Congress who will stop the funding. Things are looking good for Dem candidates in November. Even if we don’t get a veto-proof majority, we CAN stop the war.
In response to your personal attacks, I assure you that I am a woman and I’m not bitter. I’m angry. Obama has dismissed women of my generation throughout this campaign. I didn’t work for the Democratic Party for all these years to be told that Clinton’s years (and mine) as “just a wife” had no value or that the woman candidate attacks his policies when she’s in a “mood”.
Jodi P: “don’t put down the real discontent by crying out “GOP operatives””
I’m not. I chose my words very carefully to specifically avoid putting down the real discontent. I said: “I have no doubt that mixed among the folks voicing their real concerns are a few GOP operatives” Also, as I’ve said in previous posts, I fully agree that the sexism we’ve seen over the course of the last year needs to be addressed. I just disagree with the methods being suggested — they are incredibly self destructive and benefit only the GOP.
Jodi P: Just what are your motives???
Party unity. Defeat McCain. Prevent the country from falling any further than it already has.
Tess: “As to the Iraq Way, I opposed it from the start. I don’t want to see it continued anymore than you do but we don’t need a Democratic president to end it.”
Don’ forget about the SC. A dem president may be the only thing that stands between us and a SC stacked with conservatives.
Let the Democratic “leadership” & the besotted media have Obama. Let’s give Hillary a 3rd party run! She should not feel any allegiance to all those turncoats and traitors. I know I don’t, and I’ve been a Democrat all my life, as have all my family members. Not a one of us will vote for Obama.
The future of the US Supreme Court is the main reason why I haven’t decided to vote for McCain a