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30

Live-blog: Obama speech on patriotism


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By Jill Miller Zimon at 11:57 am June 30th, 2008 in Announcements, Barack Obama 

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12 Responses to “Live-blog: Obama speech on patriotism”

  1. 1 Harold Thomas on June 30th, 2008 4:34 pm

    I haven’t read Sen. Obama’s speech yet, but I found your coverage on the live blog to be very interesting!

    To me, the most important remark came at 12:29: Patriotism is about ideals. I firmly believe in the ideals on which this nation was founded; and consider myself patriotic in this sense. A secessionist is patriotic if the purpose of the secession is to restore the founding ideals within a smaller space (in the belief that George Mason was right that a free government cannot endure when spread over an entire continent).

    Needless to say, the neoconservatives emphatically disagree with that view.

    To say, however, that “patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it” may not be good enough if the country has strayed so far from its founding ideals that a restoration within the existing political system appears unlikely or impossible.

    I agree that patriotism must involve the willingness to sacrifice oneself in the service of a larger cause, and that “it must reside in our hearts and [be] cultivated in our culture.”

    I also agree with the need for civic education. Too many of our adults must have slept through high school government. On this note, I will close with a quote from William McMillan Corry, a Peace Democrat during the Civil War, whose words ring true this very day:

    “It is probable that our neglect of Constitutional learning in Ohio and the North-West alone made this war of sections possible; and the revival of that learning is the only way out of it … There are many of the most energetic, ambitious, selfish, and unscrupulous men both in civil and military life, who are bent on erecting a simple but plausible despotism upon the ruins of our … institutions.

    “When States’ Rights now threatened are clean absorbed by centralization, and when the States themselves are blotted out, and [the States] descend to the corporate condition of counties only, and their people be no longer the defiant, independent sovereigns whose fathers conquered a realm from … wilderness; [they will become] the patient … workers for a master class, or the contemptible parasites of courts and camps.”

    (Speech, “Against the Degradation of the States”, delivered in Canton, July 4, 1863)

  2. 2 Jill Miller Zimon on June 30th, 2008 4:46 pm

    Wow, Harold – that is an amazing quote. Thank you for sharing that.

    I thought it was a great speech and it closely tracks how I feel about patriotism – particularly the necessity of dissent and expressing dissent and refusal to declare that someone who dissents is not a patriot.

    It’s weird but in many ways, this speech points out just how different people who support Obama or at least who support a Democrat for president are from people who support someone looking to absolute fealty in his followers. That is just so disturbing to me and always has been.

  3. 3 Ben K on June 30th, 2008 4:55 pm

    “I wont question anyone else’s patriotism in this campaign”

    You mean John McCain’s, Senator Obama? How big of you.

  4. 4 Howard on June 30th, 2008 5:18 pm

    Of course Obama wants to put an end to Patriotism as an issue, because Obama is the one who’s patriotism is in question! He conveniently condems questioning patiotism, but where was he when his hatchet men came up with General Betray Us??? Also, why isn’t Iraq, or Afganistan on Obama’s upcoming itinery? Obama knows he can’t compete with McCain on the issue of patriotism, so he’s trying to make it a non issue. Obama has no experience, except to listen to God Damn America for 20 years!

  5. 5 Anon on June 30th, 2008 5:31 pm

    It’s weird but in many ways, this speech points out just how different people who support Obama or at least who support a Democrat for president are from people who support someone looking to absolute fealty in his followers. That is just so disturbing to me and always has been.

    Hmmm, I’m wondering who you think is “someone looking to absolute fealty in his followers.” You’re statement seems to imply that such a person is a Republican. Do you believe John McCain is such an individual? If so, what is the evidence that he demands “absolute fealty?”

  6. 6 Anon on June 30th, 2008 5:34 pm

    Correction: Please read “Your” for “You’re” in my comment. Darn homophones.

  7. 7 Jill Miller Zimon on June 30th, 2008 5:35 pm

    Yes – McCain – no specific evidence off the top of my head beyond McCain’s obvious expectation that Republicans, among others, will elect him over Obama. Implicit in his run, given the fractures in the GOP, is the expectation that they will not turn to Obama but will just trust that he will be okay and therefore vote for him. Maybe not close enough to absolute fealty for you, but if we’re talking degrees of fealty, I’m not sure it matters – he will either get their votes or he won’t and any expectation that he can win relies on his expectation that they will follow him and their party.

  8. 8 kegbot1 on June 30th, 2008 8:39 pm

    My credo:

    “The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair” — H. L. Mencken

  9. 9 Jill Miller Zimon on June 30th, 2008 9:47 pm

    Ben – what irritates you about Obama saying that? Are you saying he should have just said McCain’s name, rather than use a turn of phrase that implies McCain? what?

  10. 10 Jill Miller Zimon on June 30th, 2008 9:48 pm

    Howard, unless you’re able to substantiate the connections you suggest, you might want to try another form of persuasion, because the display in that comment is not very convincing.

  11. 11 Jill Miller Zimon on June 30th, 2008 9:50 pm

    Kegbot – excellent quote from Mencken. Thanks.

  12. 12 Anon on July 1st, 2008 7:14 pm

    Yes – McCain – no specific evidence off the top of my head beyond McCain’s obvious expectation that Republicans, among others, will elect him over Obama.

    And Barack Obama doesn’t expect Democrats, among others, to elect him over John McCain?

    Implicit in his run, given the fractures in the GOP, is the expectation that they will not turn to Obama but will just trust that he will be okay and therefore vote for him.

    Until a month ago, wasn’t the Democratic Party–at least at the level of presidential candidates–much more fractured than the Republicans? And doesn’t Barack Obama expect supporters of other Democratic candidates to support him instead of John McCain?

    Maybe not close enough to absolute fealty for you, but if we’re talking degrees of fealty, I’m not sure it matters – he will either get their votes or he won’t and any expectation that he can win relies on his expectation that they will follow him and their party.

    I don’t think you’ve made much of a case that John McCain expects “absolute fealty,” but I agree that it probably doesn’t matter.

    However, if we really want to discuss fealty, I think Lyndon Johnson can provide some guidance in his description of what he wanted in an aide: “I don’t want loyalty. I want loyalty. I want him to kiss my a** in Macy’s window at high noon and tell me it smells like roses.” That is fealty.

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