And where those interests intersect, we . . . defer?

I’m glad you aren’t in the U.S. Foreign Service.

Stand with Georgia? Have you paid any attention to the politics of their President? Have you paid any attention to how the Georgia/S Ossetia thing started? Who exactly pulled the trigger on whom?

I don’t trust the Russians any farther than I could throw their entire nation, I have about as much belief in their government. That is all as may be, but that does not excuse the stupidity of BushCo.

You propose to expose Russia as weak, how exactly? Standing with Georgia means what? Empty rhetoric. Those Russian units are armor and mechanized infantry and you propose to do exactly what to prove they’re weak? Bomb them? We do have those, troops not so much. The problem is the Russians have lots of both. Not to mention the magic words – nat gas and oil. Prices not high enough for you and BushCo yet?

I’m real unimpressed by bluster. The Russians are less impressed. The USA is responsible for what it does, and what it knows about other nations should inform some of its actions. The Russians have their interests, we have ours, and all other nations have their interests – some times they intersect and sometimes they conflict, blind alliance or opposition is stupid, you pick and choose.

While you’re busy getting your knickers in a knot on the basis of BushCo rhetoric, it would pay you to remember that Iran cooperated with us in regard to Afghanistan, for their reasons, then we kicked snot out of Iraq and started playing hard ball with them – squatting on their border. They seemed to not like that so much.

You want to buy into all the crud BushCo is shoveling, that’s your look out, if you want to think for yourself make sure you’ve got more sources than their pocket pool pals.

” . . . it is our job to see to it that we act like we have some sense.”

Chuck Butcher, are you saying that the USA is responsible for the actions of the Russians? What responsibility, then, do the Russians bear for their actions? None?

I wasn’t scheming to sound patriotic, but if you thought it sounded patriotic, then, thank you for the nice compliment. In reality, though, I’m just saying that the Russian narrative is not the least credible to me.

I think the Russians have been far more menacing to the international community than we have been owning up to. It’s my hunch that Russia has been both the arsenal and the enabler for the threats we and our allies face in the Middle East. Who is sheltering Iran? Russia. Who is brokering arms deals with Syria? Russia. I believe that’s just the tip of the iceberg. If I were Israel, I’d be deeply disturbed at the new revelations coming to light with ever more frequency concerning Russia’s involvement with rogue nations in the region.

And for those who think we dare not stand with Georgia in their time of need because we must rely on Russia to secure the peace and nuclear non-proliferation in Iran and North Korea, I would say that you’ve played into Russia’s hands. The progress we’ve made in North Korea has been mostly due to a more hardline stance that South Korea has recently adopted. Russia is not essential to North Korea. Iran needs to see that its fate, if it continues to pursue a nuclear path, either puts it in close orbit to a weak Russia, too weak to shelter Iran, or puts it in close orbit to a strong Russia, who will relegate Iran to the role of subservient satellite. The former will not do enough for Iran’s security, and the latter would rob Iran’s rulers of its nation’s right of self-determination. Neither of those would be in the best domestic interests of Iran, let alone foreign interests. Given the choice between strengthening Russia’s hand and exposing it as weak, I prefer exposing Russia as weak.

BushCo has been poking at the Bear for several years now, that is not a real smart policy. That country is xenophobic and claustrophobic regarding its borders, has been since before the Red Revolution. It is not new or strange behavior on their part, it is our job to see to it that we act like we have some sense.

Dan, you may think you’re reacting in some patriotic fashion; I’ll tell you plainly, when this government lies or acts stupidly backing it is not patriotic. It is enabling of something foreign to the American spirit and you spit on the flag doing it. If you think that is harsh, I’ve got less polite descriptions of people who use the Constitution as toilet paper and get people killed in foreign adventures without justification.

I expect political framing from any government, I do not expect bald faced lying from ours and won’t accept it quietly.

I like the way you think. For me, I stopped looking at this country through rose colored glasses a long time ago. I would put nothing past this government either Republican or Democrat. The USA should advertise itself as ‘false flags R us.’ Tonkin Gulf anyone? I believe nothing I hear and less what I see from our ‘official’ spokespeople. Wrap it in the flag and sell it to the clueless.

Here’s more on the police’s use of agent provocateurs: http://www.prisonplanet.com/will-authorities-stage-riots-in-denver.html

DJW – people like you will always believe your country could never do such a thing against any and all evidence. Be sure you leave cookies out for Santa too, ok?