These issues have been dismissed by — dare I say it — Republican-approved organizations. I’m not going to debate the facts that you omit from your comments — it’s not worth the effort.

I do, however, want to thank you for astroturfing the Republican Party stump line. We really don’t have the opportunity to hear it enough.

Joe the Plumber is: a) not a plumber; b) possibly related to a member of the Keating Five family. He also has his own foibles.

But thanks again for the standard, “repeat the lies so much it becomes truth” Republican Party line.

As an Independent voter, and not yet an Obama supporter, I have to say that you make me sick with the lies.

I find it instructive that the Left is generally delighted to sift through the relationships, tax records, voter registration, professional training, and even relatives’ relationships of a plumber from Toledo. But these same people caterwaul when anyone dares to point out Obama’s lack of accomplishments, his refusal to fully disclose his past, his radical allies and advisors, his close ties to a crooked vote-rigging organization, and his complicity in the economic crisis.

Instructive, indeed.

If joe buys this business …the tax threshold would be clearing $250,000, not grossing…so if he owns the business and files personally, why does a higher tax rate keep him from hiring anyone. How much money is he making now? Plumbers should be well paid, but the economics here don’t add up. McCains aid Joe’s been working 7 days a week at this plumbing firm. Is Joe planning to abuse his workers in the same way? Why would anyone want to work for him if they don’t get Sunday off to go to church. Filing as a business (you can see this on Wall Street right now) he’ll be able to write off many many many expenses he as an individual pays for with after tax dollars, so essentially at 30% raise. Finally McCain insisted Joe would be fined for NOT providing health care. Well, why wouldn’t he just provide them with healthcare. Whether there’s a small business exception or not, why wouldn’t he treat his fictional employees fairly. If all employers did that, we wouldn’t be in this mess, would we?

Basically when mcCain says he doesn’t understand economics, it’s the truth.

Maybe the difference is only that this concept of redistribution, like the framing of the concept of “Socialism” or what it would mean to “win” the war on terror – they get very very politicized when the reality is, we all participate in the redistribution of wealth, everyday – because our gov’t says so and/or because we decide to do it (charity, volunteering, donating and so on).

Our country is enormous, we have huge problems of poverty that defy even the best financial circumstances. I don’t believe it’s possible to truly eliminate it and so I do support the existence of mechanisms that will help alleviate poverty for those who are in it.

If other people want to label that whatever they want to label it and then slander that label, I can only keep doing what I think is right and saying why I support it.

But for sure – the extent to which any of us support it is definitely a HUGE point of contention between people of different political ideologies.

It appears that Joe may have caused himself alot of trouble considering he does not have a plumber’s license.

Personally, even though I may not agree with Obama, I would have been thrilled if a passibly future president had walked through my neighborhood. I would have smiled, shook his hand and kept my mouth shut.

Nevertheless, Obama’s policy is redistribution of wealth and does not set well with many people who work hard for where they got.

Obama didn’t get caught saying what he’s said many, many times regarding his philosophy about his tax plan. It’s just not new. And clearly Joe was comfortable asking the questions and being seen on the record asking them. So to be fair, let’s get that out of the way.

My feeling that Joe’s approach and portrait of how this all went down is deceptive really came when I heard him say to Katie Couric that he really wanted to corner Obama. “Corner” is his word, Mike.

What is that all about?

Now – again – I know, I’m voting Obama, I don’t hide that here. But to try to be honest:

Let’s put this in the best light for Joe possible: that the media is using him and that John McCain decided to use him and that Joe can’t or couldn’t control that.

Ok – I’ll buy that.

But Joe CAN control what Joe says and what Joe tells others. To say “no one asked me” a certain question? Not okay.

Also, he’s quoted in one of the articles – I think it’s the Blade but I might be wrong, saying that he didn’t have any interviews with anyone before the debate.

But then how did the Family Security Matters interview show up with a date of 10/15?

Look – as I wrote, if McCain wants to use a plumber from Ohio as the symbol for the people whom McCain believes will have to pay more taxes under Obama’s plan, that’s McCain’s choice. It just so happens that it’s not an apt choice – it just isn’t, for all the ways in which Joe is not that plumber.

Why didn’t Joe just say – I’m not that plumber, but I just don’t like the philosophy? Why did Joe play along to make it look like Obama’s plans will negatively impact him?

That’s why I call his presentations deceptive.

I know you may disagree – and I’d be interested to read why, but I hope that makes sense.

Joe may be a registered Republican, but I am a registered democrat who usually votes republican on national candidates. Registration means nothing.

Now, at this point? I think that what we did see that is sincere from Joe the plumber is the real frustration people who are fiscal or social conservatives have with McCain and/or Palin. I think Joe really wishes perhaps that he could just outright be out there for McCain – rather than do whatever it is that he did to try and show up Obama. Because if the GOP ticket was strong and competitive because it actually HAS strength and offered a solid choice, Joe Plumbers would make a lot of sense.

Instead, we get what we got last night.

Again – I was never a McCain person – in 2000 or before or since. But it cannot be easy for people who were – there’s just no way that he is now what he was then, for those supporters.