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Oct
30
The McCain campaign had an event in Defiance, Ohio today but according to a report from First Read, the attendance numbers included some interesting participants (emphasis is mine):
A local school district official confirmed after the event that of the 6,000 people estimated by the fire marshal to be in attendance this morning, more than 4,000 were bused in from schools in the area. The entire 2,500-student Defiance School District was in attendance, the official said, in addition to at least three other schools from neighboring districts, one of which sent 14 buses.
At first, this really bothered me. Here were some of my initial thoughts:
Who paid for the gas? An entire district’s population would include even kindergarteners? Given that tomorrow is Halloween and many schools barely function beyond parties and parades on the holiday, I find it, as a parent, excessive to give the kids two days off.
For those who want to say it’s a civics lesson, I’m all for those, but frankly, unless the districts are busing all these same kids to an Obama/Biden event, I have serious questions about such an expenditure of public money and even more serious questions about just how educational it is to expose the kids to a person telling them that they are all Joe the Plumber.
Also, for a ticket that is into parental choice, I definitely prefer that I be the one describing what my kids are like, and not John McCain. Likewise, I prefer that I get a choice over whether my kids go to a political rally or not. We get permission slips for every, single field trip. So that’s another question that deserves an answer: was this pre-arranged so that parents could sign field trips permission slips?
With all the fuss McCain and Palin have made about no new money, spending freezes and their rejection of throwing money at problems, it’s ironic how they decide that it’s okay to exacerbate Ohio’s already considerable public school funding programs.
But before I hit “publish” on this post, I did a little research and found this article from Crescent-News.com:
[Defiance City Schools superintendent Mike] Struble noted that Defiance City Schools students will be bused in and attending the event. The Varsity Blues will be singing “God Bless America” and the high school band will perform the national anthem.
“We want to make the opportunity available for grades K-12,” said Struble. “There is educational value of learning this (election) process and I’m glad we can do that for them. We’re excited that a national candidate is coming to our town. We look forward to that.”
In addition, Central Local Schools superintendent Dave Bagley reported this morning that plans are underway to possibly bring some Fairview students to the rally as well. Bagley was meeting with his administrative staff early today to figure out the logistics of such an endeavor.
Ayersville Local Schools superintendent Tod Hug also reported an interest in bringing students to the campaign rally and was meeting with fellow staff members to determine which classes may get that opportunity.
Hicksville High School principal Sue Dangler stated that while school officials are still in the process of working out the details, the senior government class will likely attend the rally in Defiance.
So, it would seem, it is First Read who might need a little educating: while it may be true that 4000 of the 6000 folks at the rally were schoolkids, it does sound as though that was planned, and not a last minute thing.
I think.
Additionally, before anyone who disagrees with my concerns decides to jump all over this post, The Virginian Pilot published this article, “When the schools become campaign stops, some object.”
An excerpt on the ground rules:
Laws governing use of school property don’t appear to give strict guidelines for such events, said Kent Willis, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia. Public schools are free to host speakers with differing moral or social viewpoints for educational purposes, and political figures often appear at schools, he said.
Officials also might allow outside organizations to use school facilities as long as the same rules apply to everyone. If no students are attending the event, it doesn’t matter whether it takes place during classroom hours, Willis said.
“If Obama calls and says, ‘I would like to use your school,’ and they treat Obama the same as anyone else, they’re okay,” he said.
Generally, local school divisions have policies prohibiting the distribution of campaign materials on campuses and relegating political involvement of employees to time outside work and schools.
And the set of facts that raised the issues (my emphasis):
Democrat Barack Obama’s appearance at Granby High School on Wednesday was one of two Virginia events this week that prompted questions about whether campaigning politicians should be allowed to speak at public schools during classroom hours.
Obama’s Republican rivals, John McCain and running mate Sarah Palin, moved a Wednesday rally planned for Fairfax High School after the school division received complaints. The rally violated a school system policy barring campaign activities during the school day.
McCain’s campaign said in a statement that the reason for the rally’s relocation was to accommodate high interest.
On Tuesday, a speaker before a Norfolk City Council meeting objected to Obama’s Granby event. “This shouldn’t be happening,” Chuck Brewer said.
Monte Lloyd Mercer, president of the Education Association of Norfolk, said the Illinois senator’s visit was good for students, however. “It’s still a wonderful opportunity for them to say they attend a school system that hosted a presidential candidate,” she said.
Norfolk administrators said Obama’s Wednesday events didn’t violate School Board policy. The candidate briefly visited a classroom and held a discussion before the media and an invitation-only audience of about 150 parents, educators and other leaders. Only a handful of students were selected to attend.
I spent about five minutes trying to find information on Ohio public school law on political events but didn’t come up with anything. If you know, please do leave a comment or e-mail.
My initial questions still stand: who foots the bill and do the schools give the kids an alternative in case the parents do not want the children to attend?
By Jill Miller Zimon at 3:21 pm October 30th, 2008 in Campaigning, Education, Holidays, John McCain, Ohio, Parenting, Politics, WH2008
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Shalom Jill,
As a kindergartner in 1960, I got to see then vice president Richard Nixon when he made a whistle stop (on a real train) in Marietta, Ohio.
But for that event I might not be the staunch Democrat I am today. (Senator John Kennedy didn’t visit Marietta.)
I say that all of these students benefited from Senator John McCain’s visit, regardless of their, or their parents’, political inclinations.
B’shalom,
Jeff
[...] 1539: Should McCain campaign reimburse Ohio public schools? [...]
Ahhh - well - I obviously wasn’t thinking about it that way, thank you for that comment, Jeff!
Still - I am a real stingy parent when it comes to all the time the kids are not in school - it drives me crazy. I’m also very against all the parties they have that keep them from classroom time, and of course all the testing time and prep time.
But I will definitely try to keep in my mind from now on what you wrote. Thanks. Very interesting indeed.
Shalom Jill,
I’m sure I learned a lot of good stuff in kindergarten.
I only remember two pieces from that year: Nixon’s visit and hating quiet time with just my thin, plaid nap pad between me and the basement’s cement floor.
B’shalom,
Jeff
I remember having to put our heads down on our desks at the end of the day, of re-enacting fairy tales like the Gingerbread Man and not being allowed to be in class in first grade with my best friend because they thought we talked to much.
Oh - and being one of the only Jewish kids in the school.
Hey Jill,
Defiance is just ten miles down the road from me. It is the big city to us
You are right to ask these questions. These same schools are putting up levies to ask for more money yet they think nothing of hauling kids to this partisan political event. Who is going to pay for the extra police, and city workers that were called in?
The newspaper, which is a Republican/Libertarian paper delayed printing by 2 hours so they could cover all of the McCain event.
There is some debate about “crowd” size. The paper said several thousand. All estimates are well below the expected 10,000 people. And this is in a quad-county area where Republicans out number Democrats 2 to 1. We who are Democrats only go out and night and slink around when no one can see us
McCain coming to Defiance is actually very good news. If he has to come to an area where every elected official in 3 counties is a Republican……….it means he FEARS losing Ohio.
5 more days
Bruce
It’s all about the FEAR, can you imagine kids crying please do not vote for Obama mommy.
Do we lie at rallies? then if we sponsor our children to attend are we in fact teaching them to lie?
I have to wonder, at what age a child should be exposed to politics? I say after attending a Civics class and that’s what fourteen…kindergarten, first and second graders are to young for rallies.
Using public schools to fill rallies…oh if I was the band teacher….
Fate comes a-knockin
Doors start lockin
Your old time connection
Change your direction
You aint gonna change it
Cant rearrange it
Cant stand the pain
When its all the same to you, my friend
Its the same old story
Same old song and dance, my friend
Its the same old story
Same old story
Same old song and dance
No defieance in Defiance.
I have gut objections to this, too. And I wonder about the legalities of it all. I can see the civics lesson opportunity, a bit. But McCain calls Obama a socialist and a Marxist. The older kids might get a chance to discuss that rhetoric, but the younger kids might end up having nightmares when that terrorist-loving, baby-killing, Obama guy gets elected. And this man, McCain is held up as a person of honor that we’re to respect while he’s spitting out lies left and right. How do you talk to a young child about that? I can see high school classes going, but the whole district?
Do you have any idea of whether this has been a pattern?
FYI: The Defiance Ohio School Board has two places in their Bylaws that prohibit partisan political activities.
http://www.neola.com/defiancecity-oh/
Go to 1200: Administrator Ethics, Section H
and in the Administrator Guidelines go to 3231A Political Activities.
I’m from Defiance, and was looking unsuccessfully for the statement I remember reading, that in response to parents’ concerns about being forced to have their kids attend, the principal said students do not have to attend. However, he said it would be a unique opportunity no matter their politics. … I personally was happy to stay away, although I was glad to hear that some Obama rooters stood at a respectful distance with signs.
Shalom Y’all,
Would we be having this conversation if it had been Democratic presidential Barack Obama who had visited the school?
I just Googled +Barack +visits +school and got 2,480,000 hits. Do we call Obama on any of those?
B’shalom,
Jeff
[...] Should McCain campaign reimburse Ohio public schools? Posted in Comments, Election [...]
Jeff - The busing the kids thing is what caught my eye. I believe that yes, that would catch my eye if the Obama campaign involved a similar action and the result was that 2/3rd of the audience at a political rally five days before an election, an election in which few of those kids can and/or are going to vote, were present.
In reality, would I have written about it? I don’t know - you might be right. But my feelings about the wastefulness of dragging kids out of school etc. the parties and so on? I’ve had that since my oldest was in pre-school.
So I’d give myself at least a 50-50 likelihood that I would have noticed it and written about it.
In the end, it is a fascinating topic to me and you offer a good counterpoint. But you know, there are parents who routinely don’t let their kids go on field trips or participate in certain types of activities. The way that this rally was written up raised my curiosity. If an Obama event was written up exactly the same, stressing the overwhelming presence of K-12th graders, there’s a good chance I’d notice it - and that I’d write about it. But I will not say for sure - because that’s not how it happened.
I would definitely be concerned if Obama an entire school district were bussed into an Obama event. Even more so, it they comprised 2/3 of the crowd.
I would also be concerned if the school district’s bylaws made it very clear that this was not allowed, which Defiance School Board does.
i am from defiance ohio and i think it was totally wrong to drag the schools into this “historic visit”. i heard rumors of the little ones freezing out in the cold,bathroom issues, etc. sounds like one big mess…and calling everyone “joe the plumber” should tell people something…i am NOT joe the plumber,i am an individual who happens to work 50 hrs. a week and still barely squeak by…just what is john mccain gonna do for me??? i see more of the same path that this nation is on…goin’ to hell in a bucket but at least i’m enjoyin’ the ride…
Hello, I live in Bryan, Ohio and my child brought home a letter from school on Tuesday afternoon telling me that he and his high school band were going to be performing at the McCain Rally on Thur in Defiance, OH.
The thing that struck me as wrong is that as a parent I was not even ask permission about this….THAT IS SO WRONG!
They bused the kids out of here on Thurs morning at 6:30am and they arrived back around 12:30pm and since they missed lunch at school, subs from Subway were provided for them.
Several questions arise out of all of this, a couple of my main ones are:
1) Why weren’t parents ask to approve this trip?
2) Who covered the cost of transportation? Was it the taxpayers?
On a side note, it is pretty funny that our local paper, The Bryan Times, ran a photo on the frontpage of Friday’s paper of the high school principal, the school superintendent, the SCHOOL’S TREASURER, and the ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT at the Rally. Now I can see the Principal and Superintendent going to see our band play, but as far as the Treasurer and Admin Assistant, I have to believe that their attendance was political.
@17, I really appreciate you leaving this comment. If it’s all as you say, I know I would not be happy. Now - again, I’ve been asked if I’d feel that way re: it being Obama. Maybe I wouldn’t be AS upset, but I really do believe in parents being given the choice. Interesting - thanks again.
You are welcome Jill.
What really is sad is that I am afraid to say anything about my feelings on this issue to the school.
This town of Bryan, Ohio, is pretty much filled up with Republicians and I fear that if I approached the School Board or school admin. about this that they would take their anger out on me or even worse, make things bad for my child at school.
How sad is that?
Jill,
I don’t think people may realize how Republican this area is. Last election? 3 Counties in this area had NO Democrats on the ballot. None. Zero. A liberal here is an independent.
Add to this that most of the Churches in this area are Evangelical, Conservative…….it is easy for Republican politics and religion, and by extension public education, to be intertwined.
I don’t think anyone was being devious….It just never occurred to them “why would anyone object?” I hope they have learned better.
I think the previous commenter has good reason to wonder if she would be attacked by the school board if she raised an issue about this. I have had enough political dealings over the years in this area to know that I have received an unfavorable hearing/action based on my “liberal” politics/religion. It is never stated…..after all that would be un-American but it happens nonetheless.
Day After Tomorrow….
Bruce
Bruce - I appreciate the context. I am not familiar at all with many of the counties in the state beyond maybe eight or ten and primarily the ones closest to me or larger ones, with a couple of exceptions.
What you describe reminds a bit of an area on Long Island which has a board of ed that now has a majority of members who are Orthodox Jews It’s made quite an impact on the local schools there. But if that’s who lives in the community…
On the other hand, we have a constitution and it’s intended to protect minorities as well as majorities, no matter who is in which group.
Interesting indeed.
the constitution calls for separation of church and state…to me, this event bordered on brainwashing…but bottom line like said before…who paid for this??????
mccain in defiance…
Every time I read comments like this it reinforces my basic beliefs about Republicans/conservatives and especially rural small-town conservatives - bullies.
Who paid for this?
According to the Defiance City Administrator Jeff Leonard:
“City officials have not debated whether to charge the Republican campaign for any of the costs the city incurred because of the event, but he explained that it is important for the city to support the rights of free speech and assembly which are important in America.”
Well at least this was brought up at our local school board meeting last night, here’s the article from today’s Bryan Times:
Was band supporting McCain?
By TAMI BRIGLE - Times Reporter
Did Bryan City Schools inadvertently support a political candidate by allowing the band to perform at the John McCain rally in Defiance recently?
Or were officials just allowing students to experience the political process?
That was the concern that school board members addressed Monday night.
“I’ve gotten word from maybe a couple dozen parents who were concerned about the fact that the Bryan band went to the McCain rally,” said board member Scott Acus. “Some of the concerns that I’ve heard are … we spent school money to go support a political candidate.”
“ThatÕs tax money that’s coming from people with a wide range of political beliefs.”
At the end of the board meeting, Acus said he and others wanted more information on why the decision was made to send the band to the rally.
Superintendent Diana Savage said she was responsible for making the decision.
“I felt being there in person at such a historic event and having the national coverage that was going to be there, I thought it was truly an honor for us to go, and I gave the permission for us to set up the trip,” Savage said. She added that she got feedback from board members before making her decision, and she also checked with the district’s attorney on the board policy. Acus acknowledged he was the only board member who did not give his approval.
Savage read from board policy 9700, which concerns relations with special interest groups.
The policy states, “Any request from civic institutions, charitable organizations, or special interest groups which involve such activities as patriotic functions, contests, exhibits, sales of products to and by students, sending promotional materials home with students, graduation prizes, fund raising, and free teaching materials must be carefully reviewed to ensure that such activities promote student interests.”
The policy continues, “… any such approval, granted for whatever cause or group, shall not be construed as an endorsement of said cause or group by this Board. Board President Glen Newcomer supported Savage.
“It is not an endorsement,” he said. “… It is showing responsible citizenship and it also shows respect for the political process. She followed the procedures, and I believe she made the right call.”
Acus still was concerned about mixing politics with education.
“There’s a reason that school board members are not partisan,” Acus said, explaining that political affiliations should not come into play when dealing with school issues.
Bryan High School Principal Stephen Alspaugh said he also was involved in making the decision to send the students to the rally, and he believed the day was historic and important for students to see, no matter what political affiliations there were.
“In my 43 years of life, I have never seen anything like what I saw that day. The fact that our students had a chance to be there, the fact that they had a chance to experience and see it, to me, it wouldn’t have mattered whether it was a McCain or Obama rally. It was unbelievable,” said Alspaugh. “In my opinion, it was an unbelievable honor for our students to be there, and I would seriously believe that it wasn’t dependent upon a candidate”
“I was seriously looking at it from the educational aspect for our students,” he added.
Thanks for the article. That was very informative. I have yet to see any discussion about the “costs” in the Defiance paper.
The only way for something to be non-partisan is for there to be equal representation of all the parties. Even if they supported McCain and Obama……..they would not have likely supported Nader,Baldwin, or Barr. And I guarantee you if the socialist party candidate held a public rally there would be NO school kids at the rally and NO public funds expended for rally costs.
This area is a Republican stronghold. This was a safe decision to make. I commend Acus for raising the issue of propriety and partisanship.
Bruce
Bryan Ohio - thanks very much - I’ll try to catch up with it and give it its own post.