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	<title>Comments on: Torture and blackouts and Kassams, oh my</title>
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	<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2008/11/19/torture-blackouts-and-kassems-oh-my/</link>
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		<title>By: Jill Miller Zimon</title>
		<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2008/11/19/torture-blackouts-and-kassems-oh-my/comment-page-1/#comment-168603</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill Miller Zimon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/?p=11391#comment-168603</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure that I&#039;m not sure who victimizes first - Israel, Hamas or Fatah - figuring that out has been a decades-long debate.  But I do agree that residents of Gaza and the West Bank suffer due to how they are treated as a result of policies pursued by Israel, Hamas and Fatah.

Who has it worse - Israelis or residents of Gaza and the West Bank? Due to sheer numbers, I think that too isn&#039;t difficult to answer - I would agree that more residents of Gaza and the West Bank suffer on a daily basis than do the 1.4 million Israeli Arabs or the 4+ million Jews in Israel. 

I tend to focus on the efforts of peace activist groups like &lt;a href=&quot;http://rhr.israel.net/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rabbis for Human Rights&lt;/a&gt; which has several efforts that focus on helping residents of Gaza and the West Bank, among many other efforts.

Likewise, I contrast the conditions in Gaza and the West Bank with those of the Israeli Arab cities and towns.  Repeatedly, over the years, the residents overwhelmingly have said that they would prefer to remain in Israel even if a Palestinian homeland was established.

When I was there, I asked - as did others - why? Why is that the case?

Because, they will tell you, it is due to what has been the case re: the cohesion of the Arab states for decades, if not longer: they do not have strong associations between themselves; they do not have shared visions for themselves, they do not have strong democracies that could manage the diversity of the Arab populations themselves.  

&lt;a href=&quot;http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&amp;Area=sd&amp;ID=SP11700&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is one study from 2000 that addresses this sentiment of Israeli Arabs.

And, although I&#039;m absolutely not to be confused with fans of Daniel Pipes, in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5314&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article,&lt;/a&gt; he cites at least two recent studies and also some older ones re: just how strongly Arabs feel about not being, as he puts it, &quot;handed over&quot; to the Palestinian Authority.

None of that excuses the Israeli gov&#039;t for its contributions to the destitute lives of many people in the West Bank and Gaza, on top of what Hamas and Fatah inflict as well.  But it does speak to the prospect of what could and might be able to exist there, if the violence, rhetoric and desire to destroy or displace all the Jews from Israel ceased.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure that I&#8217;m not sure who victimizes first &#8211; Israel, Hamas or Fatah &#8211; figuring that out has been a decades-long debate.  But I do agree that residents of Gaza and the West Bank suffer due to how they are treated as a result of policies pursued by Israel, Hamas and Fatah.</p>
<p>Who has it worse &#8211; Israelis or residents of Gaza and the West Bank? Due to sheer numbers, I think that too isn&#8217;t difficult to answer &#8211; I would agree that more residents of Gaza and the West Bank suffer on a daily basis than do the 1.4 million Israeli Arabs or the 4+ million Jews in Israel. </p>
<p>I tend to focus on the efforts of peace activist groups like <a href="http://rhr.israel.net/" rel="nofollow">Rabbis for Human Rights</a> which has several efforts that focus on helping residents of Gaza and the West Bank, among many other efforts.</p>
<p>Likewise, I contrast the conditions in Gaza and the West Bank with those of the Israeli Arab cities and towns.  Repeatedly, over the years, the residents overwhelmingly have said that they would prefer to remain in Israel even if a Palestinian homeland was established.</p>
<p>When I was there, I asked &#8211; as did others &#8211; why? Why is that the case?</p>
<p>Because, they will tell you, it is due to what has been the case re: the cohesion of the Arab states for decades, if not longer: they do not have strong associations between themselves; they do not have shared visions for themselves, they do not have strong democracies that could manage the diversity of the Arab populations themselves.  </p>
<p><a href="http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&#038;Area=sd&#038;ID=SP11700" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is one study from 2000 that addresses this sentiment of Israeli Arabs.</p>
<p>And, although I&#8217;m absolutely not to be confused with fans of Daniel Pipes, in <a href="http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5314" rel="nofollow">this article,</a> he cites at least two recent studies and also some older ones re: just how strongly Arabs feel about not being, as he puts it, &#8220;handed over&#8221; to the Palestinian Authority.</p>
<p>None of that excuses the Israeli gov&#8217;t for its contributions to the destitute lives of many people in the West Bank and Gaza, on top of what Hamas and Fatah inflict as well.  But it does speak to the prospect of what could and might be able to exist there, if the violence, rhetoric and desire to destroy or displace all the Jews from Israel ceased.</p>
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		<title>By: LisaRenee</title>
		<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2008/11/19/torture-blackouts-and-kassems-oh-my/comment-page-1/#comment-168568</link>
		<dc:creator>LisaRenee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/?p=11391#comment-168568</guid>
		<description>It is difficult to imagine how people can survive, even more so by those who are in Palestine.  They are victimized by the Israelis and then by Hamas and Fatah.

From their perspective during just six days:

In their weekly report on the Israeli Human Rights Violations in the Palestinian Territory in the period between November 13-19, 2008 published, Thursday, PCHR said that Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) killed four Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. Six Palestinians, including a child, were wounded by the IOF gunfire in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

In the reporting period, Israeli troops launched mock air raids against the Gaza Strip and conducted 30 military operations into Palestinian communities in the West Bank, and one into the Gaza Strip, in which they arrested 44 Palestinians, including 2 children, in the West Bank , 4 of whom including one child were arrested at Israeli military checkpoints. In addition 15 Palestinian fishermen and 3 international solidarity activists were arrested while sailing in Palestinian waters opposite to the Gaza Strip.

IOF have continued to impose a total siege on the Palestinian Territory and have isolated the Gaza Strip from the outside world. The tightened siege since two weeks, has had a disastrous impact on the humanitarian and economic situation in the Gaza Strip; 1.5 million people are being denied their basic rights, including freedom of movement, and their rights to appropriate living conditions, work, health and education. The Gaza Strip is currently suffering from a serious humanitarian crisis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is difficult to imagine how people can survive, even more so by those who are in Palestine.  They are victimized by the Israelis and then by Hamas and Fatah.</p>
<p>From their perspective during just six days:</p>
<p>In their weekly report on the Israeli Human Rights Violations in the Palestinian Territory in the period between November 13-19, 2008 published, Thursday, PCHR said that Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) killed four Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. Six Palestinians, including a child, were wounded by the IOF gunfire in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.</p>
<p>In the reporting period, Israeli troops launched mock air raids against the Gaza Strip and conducted 30 military operations into Palestinian communities in the West Bank, and one into the Gaza Strip, in which they arrested 44 Palestinians, including 2 children, in the West Bank , 4 of whom including one child were arrested at Israeli military checkpoints. In addition 15 Palestinian fishermen and 3 international solidarity activists were arrested while sailing in Palestinian waters opposite to the Gaza Strip.</p>
<p>IOF have continued to impose a total siege on the Palestinian Territory and have isolated the Gaza Strip from the outside world. The tightened siege since two weeks, has had a disastrous impact on the humanitarian and economic situation in the Gaza Strip; 1.5 million people are being denied their basic rights, including freedom of movement, and their rights to appropriate living conditions, work, health and education. The Gaza Strip is currently suffering from a serious humanitarian crisis.</p>
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		<title>By: Holly in Cincinnati</title>
		<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2008/11/19/torture-blackouts-and-kassems-oh-my/comment-page-1/#comment-168519</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly in Cincinnati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/?p=11391#comment-168519</guid>
		<description>Jill, the journalists don&#039;t BELONG in Gaza - they will only get kidnapped or killed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jill, the journalists don&#8217;t BELONG in Gaza &#8211; they will only get kidnapped or killed.</p>
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