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	<title>Comments on: Cleveland Public Square Rally for Israel, 1/12/09, 12noon</title>
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	<description>&#34;She is very powerful, so be nice to her.&#34; Former Chancellor, Ohio Board of Regents, Eric Fingerhut</description>
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		<title>By: davis</title>
		<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2009/01/08/cleveland-public-square-rally-for-israel-11209-12noon/comment-page-1/#comment-197824</link>
		<dc:creator>davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/?p=11817#comment-197824</guid>
		<description>the reason it isnt comperable b/c the Israelis have no intentions to wipe out the Palestinians or Gaza. In fact, israel is the only country to go so far out of their way to SAVE PALESTINIANS from the attacks. Before their air raids they dropped leaflets warning civilians to flee from specific places they were going to attack. They are the only army in history to make thousands of phone calls and text messages to Gazans urging them to move to safety so they aren&#039;t harmed by the attacks. If they were doing a genocide, why would they be going so far out of their way to save palestinian lives? they are also one of the only countries that have accepted injured palestinians into their hospotal to treat them. hamas has launched close to NINE THOUSAND ROCKETS INTO ISRAEL since the year 2000, and you are saying that the Israelis are causing a holocaust?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the reason it isnt comperable b/c the Israelis have no intentions to wipe out the Palestinians or Gaza. In fact, israel is the only country to go so far out of their way to SAVE PALESTINIANS from the attacks. Before their air raids they dropped leaflets warning civilians to flee from specific places they were going to attack. They are the only army in history to make thousands of phone calls and text messages to Gazans urging them to move to safety so they aren&#8217;t harmed by the attacks. If they were doing a genocide, why would they be going so far out of their way to save palestinian lives? they are also one of the only countries that have accepted injured palestinians into their hospotal to treat them. hamas has launched close to NINE THOUSAND ROCKETS INTO ISRAEL since the year 2000, and you are saying that the Israelis are causing a holocaust?</p>
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		<title>By: curious</title>
		<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2009/01/08/cleveland-public-square-rally-for-israel-11209-12noon/comment-page-1/#comment-197200</link>
		<dc:creator>curious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 05:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/?p=11817#comment-197200</guid>
		<description>40% of the people dead right now are children Israel bombed a children&#039;s pediatric hospital and do not tell me that Hamas was hiding their. This is not just a war anymore this is genocide same as Hitler did so yes it can be compared because killing 930 people in 17 days cannot be considered anything less, Hitler&#039;s reason and hatred toward the Jews was horrible and he murdered many people, We do not agree with Hamas but when it becomes this intense it can be compared to the holocaust because the result of both events is the same and that is massive loss of lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>40% of the people dead right now are children Israel bombed a children&#8217;s pediatric hospital and do not tell me that Hamas was hiding their. This is not just a war anymore this is genocide same as Hitler did so yes it can be compared because killing 930 people in 17 days cannot be considered anything less, Hitler&#8217;s reason and hatred toward the Jews was horrible and he murdered many people, We do not agree with Hamas but when it becomes this intense it can be compared to the holocaust because the result of both events is the same and that is massive loss of lives.</p>
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		<title>By: davis</title>
		<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2009/01/08/cleveland-public-square-rally-for-israel-11209-12noon/comment-page-1/#comment-196986</link>
		<dc:creator>davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/?p=11817#comment-196986</guid>
		<description>look, i do not mean to say that it is OK to kill innocent civilians. Last week my synagogue invited several other synagogues and jewish organizations to recite psalms for a quick and successful war with minimal casualties on BOTH sides. However, calling this a Holocaust is a harsh overstatement and even a blatant lie. What made the Holocaust so evil was that the Nazi regime intended to exterminate the Jewish race. Their intention was to completely wipe out every Jew no matter how innocent they were.  If one was to compare this to the situation in the Middle East, it would be the Islamic Extremists, such as Hamas, Fatah, and Hezbollah, if anyone, who is acting most like the Nazis. The Palestinians who unfortunately are living and dying in such horrible conditions are not he subject of attacks by the Israelis. The Israeli government has said that this is not a war against the Palestinian or any Muslim people. It is an effort to stop the Hamas terrorists who has said explicitly that their goal is to wipe Israel off the map. They claim religious obligation to kill all Jews. They have called upon all arabs in Israel and in the world to rise up and exterminate the Jews. So do not even try saying that the Israelis or Jews are commmiting genocide. This is the complete opposite: it is self-defense against an violent enemy that swears to never back down. So i apologize if i made u sound like a Hamas sympathizer, but next time u make harsh accusations or tell me to check my facts, u have to do a little research yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>look, i do not mean to say that it is OK to kill innocent civilians. Last week my synagogue invited several other synagogues and jewish organizations to recite psalms for a quick and successful war with minimal casualties on BOTH sides. However, calling this a Holocaust is a harsh overstatement and even a blatant lie. What made the Holocaust so evil was that the Nazi regime intended to exterminate the Jewish race. Their intention was to completely wipe out every Jew no matter how innocent they were.  If one was to compare this to the situation in the Middle East, it would be the Islamic Extremists, such as Hamas, Fatah, and Hezbollah, if anyone, who is acting most like the Nazis. The Palestinians who unfortunately are living and dying in such horrible conditions are not he subject of attacks by the Israelis. The Israeli government has said that this is not a war against the Palestinian or any Muslim people. It is an effort to stop the Hamas terrorists who has said explicitly that their goal is to wipe Israel off the map. They claim religious obligation to kill all Jews. They have called upon all arabs in Israel and in the world to rise up and exterminate the Jews. So do not even try saying that the Israelis or Jews are commmiting genocide. This is the complete opposite: it is self-defense against an violent enemy that swears to never back down. So i apologize if i made u sound like a Hamas sympathizer, but next time u make harsh accusations or tell me to check my facts, u have to do a little research yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: curious</title>
		<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2009/01/08/cleveland-public-square-rally-for-israel-11209-12noon/comment-page-1/#comment-196945</link>
		<dc:creator>curious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/?p=11817#comment-196945</guid>
		<description>To Davis 
When I made the statement of bad, if you do not think that killing people at large numbers regardless from what side it is happening is not a bad thing then maybe you should think about what is good and what is bad. If you did not notice I stated that their are people on both ends and all religions who have issues and need to really follow their religions instead of letting emotions decide their fate and their choices in the future. And as far as passing judgment, our religions forbid this kind of killing, their is a difference between defending yourself and invading another country and causing a holocausts. And if you feel that I am defending Hamas I AM NOT DEFENDING HAMAS. Face the facts of how many people have been killed in this and if you still feel that this is ok to do then do not complain about what went on during the Holocaust either because that was mass genocide and this is nothing different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Davis<br />
When I made the statement of bad, if you do not think that killing people at large numbers regardless from what side it is happening is not a bad thing then maybe you should think about what is good and what is bad. If you did not notice I stated that their are people on both ends and all religions who have issues and need to really follow their religions instead of letting emotions decide their fate and their choices in the future. And as far as passing judgment, our religions forbid this kind of killing, their is a difference between defending yourself and invading another country and causing a holocausts. And if you feel that I am defending Hamas I AM NOT DEFENDING HAMAS. Face the facts of how many people have been killed in this and if you still feel that this is ok to do then do not complain about what went on during the Holocaust either because that was mass genocide and this is nothing different.</p>
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		<title>By: davis</title>
		<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2009/01/08/cleveland-public-square-rally-for-israel-11209-12noon/comment-page-1/#comment-196844</link>
		<dc:creator>davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/?p=11817#comment-196844</guid>
		<description>now that I am reading over what I wrote, i apologize for the grammatical mistakes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>now that I am reading over what I wrote, i apologize for the grammatical mistakes.</p>
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		<title>By: davis</title>
		<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2009/01/08/cleveland-public-square-rally-for-israel-11209-12noon/comment-page-1/#comment-196839</link>
		<dc:creator>davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/?p=11817#comment-196839</guid>
		<description>jill, i want to thank u for your elequence and bravery to &#039;say it like it is&#039; i read some of the artilces you cited (it was really long but i read most of it) and that also very good, and presented both sides of the fighting. A for &#039;curious&#039; what you said that: 
&quot;you try to justify Israel’s actions but 919 palestinians have died in the pas 16 days, 300 or so were children, what was their crime? you are not bent on stoping terrorism you are bent on destroying the race of Palestinians as a whole&quot; that is not true. yes many innocent Palestinians have suffered as collateral damage, and it is really unfortunate, but they were not the targest of the attacks, as is the case in Sderot and Ashkelon. The Hamas militants are firing rockets indiscriminately at Israelis from behind human shields, thus making it impossible for the IDF to stop them without hurting or killing civilians as collateral damage. If you want to blame someone for those deaths you can blame Hamas for firing rockets from their backyards and mosques. 

As for what you said later:
&quot;You are becoming a disgrace to your own religions on both sides, you are fighting for land that DOES NOT BELONG TO ANY OF US, IT IS GOD’S LAND NOT OURS.&quot; If you really believe in God that usually means you believe in the Bible, and according to the Bible GOD gave the land to the Jewish people. He commanded them to settle and inhabit the land. 

One last note regarding what you said that they are being bad Jews: it is not your place to judge them! If you are saying that what they are doing is wrong ethically, then say that. That point has been argued in discussions above and seems to have been disproved. But if you are saying that they are violating the word of GOD, and being bad Jews, you will either have to bring some really good proof for that or hold your religious beliefs to yourself. 
thank you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jill, i want to thank u for your elequence and bravery to &#8216;say it like it is&#8217; i read some of the artilces you cited (it was really long but i read most of it) and that also very good, and presented both sides of the fighting. A for &#8216;curious&#8217; what you said that:<br />
&#8220;you try to justify Israel’s actions but 919 palestinians have died in the pas 16 days, 300 or so were children, what was their crime? you are not bent on stoping terrorism you are bent on destroying the race of Palestinians as a whole&#8221; that is not true. yes many innocent Palestinians have suffered as collateral damage, and it is really unfortunate, but they were not the targest of the attacks, as is the case in Sderot and Ashkelon. The Hamas militants are firing rockets indiscriminately at Israelis from behind human shields, thus making it impossible for the IDF to stop them without hurting or killing civilians as collateral damage. If you want to blame someone for those deaths you can blame Hamas for firing rockets from their backyards and mosques. </p>
<p>As for what you said later:<br />
&#8220;You are becoming a disgrace to your own religions on both sides, you are fighting for land that DOES NOT BELONG TO ANY OF US, IT IS GOD’S LAND NOT OURS.&#8221; If you really believe in God that usually means you believe in the Bible, and according to the Bible GOD gave the land to the Jewish people. He commanded them to settle and inhabit the land. </p>
<p>One last note regarding what you said that they are being bad Jews: it is not your place to judge them! If you are saying that what they are doing is wrong ethically, then say that. That point has been argued in discussions above and seems to have been disproved. But if you are saying that they are violating the word of GOD, and being bad Jews, you will either have to bring some really good proof for that or hold your religious beliefs to yourself.<br />
thank you</p>
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		<title>By: Jill Miller Zimon</title>
		<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2009/01/08/cleveland-public-square-rally-for-israel-11209-12noon/comment-page-1/#comment-195398</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill Miller Zimon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 04:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/?p=11817#comment-195398</guid>
		<description>Wow - take a kid to an annual check-up and look what I miss! That&#039;s the last time I make a scheduling conflict like this again. :)

First - John - I only want to comment on one thing that you wrote early on:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;And yes, everyone who criticizes Israel’s policies is anti-Semitic, an easy thing to sling around, though it’s been slung around so easily and with such lack of discrimination for so long that it’s long since lost all its ability to cow critics of Israel.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Nothing could cow me from being a critic of Israel because of the stability of my love for it.  It&#039;s precisely how I feel about the United States as well.

When you make a comment like that, John, you&#039;re heading into Michele Bachmann territory - she was the Minnesota GOP congressional incumbent who told Chris Matthews that the media needs to investigate all members of Congress to determine which ones are anti-America and which ones are pro-America.

There is nothing that would cow me from criticizing the USA or Israel - despite the fact that I love and feel lucky to live in the USA and I love and feel lucky to be a Jew.

Now - there are a couple of blog posts I&#039;d really love for the readers of this thread to read, because I think they do an excellent job of highlighting how someone can love Israel and criticize it as well and, even if someone wants to call me an anti-Semite for that, I - along with many, many others - will reject it every time, just as I will reject being told I&#039;m anti-America because I voted for Obama or because I think Bush completely $&amp;@%ed up this country and so on.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://lisagoldman.net/2009/01/07/haniyeh-and-his-israeli-sisters-wartime-tales-from-gaza-and-israel/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s the first post,&lt;/a&gt; written by an Israeli-Canadian journalist who lives in Tel Aviv. It is long but worth reading ALL of it, please.

The second thing I&#039;d like you to read is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054903.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the latest news&lt;/a&gt; about how some members of the Knesset want to ban the Israeli Arab parties from participating in elections. This is the kind of thing that drives left of center Jews who love Israel (having lived there by the way), absolutely CRAZY.

It is late and there is always more to say except so few people take the time and effort and stamina to stick with this.  I know, I know.  Just today I was called for comment by The Jewish Week - a friend who is a professor in NYC didn&#039;t want to talk to them because he said that he just can&#039;t care anymore about it - he is Jewish.

We are responsible for turning off people from engaging in a meaningful way - and part of the reason for that is the polarization.  We must not allow that to happen - we must keep bringing it around, not only to the facts and the specifics, but also to the future and reality.  Even people who talk in the lingo &quot;60 year occupation&quot; (and often end up going into a push for a one state solution) can often be heard to say that they recognize that Israel isn&#039;t going anywhere, so there must be an end to the violence.

But people are so afraid.  The region has been so dependent on the threat of violence to keep things in check.  We must replace that threat with trust - knowing that it&#039;s difficult is never an adequate response.

Finally, if you didn&#039;t already read my piece from earlier today, please read it now &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2009/01/12/hamas-a-fatal-failure-in-leadership-and-a-prize-winning-puppet/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;(here)&lt;/a&gt;- it is about the complete failure of Hamas at leading, which is in fact what it was elected to do.  On that basis alone, Hamas can be seen as not speaking for or acting on behalf of and certainly not acting in the best interests of the Palestinians.

Thank you all for engaging. You can lob the salvos at me now. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow &#8211; take a kid to an annual check-up and look what I miss! That&#8217;s the last time I make a scheduling conflict like this again. <img src='http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>First &#8211; John &#8211; I only want to comment on one thing that you wrote early on:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;And yes, everyone who criticizes Israel’s policies is anti-Semitic, an easy thing to sling around, though it’s been slung around so easily and with such lack of discrimination for so long that it’s long since lost all its ability to cow critics of Israel.</p></blockquote>
<p>Nothing could cow me from being a critic of Israel because of the stability of my love for it.  It&#8217;s precisely how I feel about the United States as well.</p>
<p>When you make a comment like that, John, you&#8217;re heading into Michele Bachmann territory &#8211; she was the Minnesota GOP congressional incumbent who told Chris Matthews that the media needs to investigate all members of Congress to determine which ones are anti-America and which ones are pro-America.</p>
<p>There is nothing that would cow me from criticizing the USA or Israel &#8211; despite the fact that I love and feel lucky to live in the USA and I love and feel lucky to be a Jew.</p>
<p>Now &#8211; there are a couple of blog posts I&#8217;d really love for the readers of this thread to read, because I think they do an excellent job of highlighting how someone can love Israel and criticize it as well and, even if someone wants to call me an anti-Semite for that, I &#8211; along with many, many others &#8211; will reject it every time, just as I will reject being told I&#8217;m anti-America because I voted for Obama or because I think Bush completely $&#038;@%ed up this country and so on.</p>
<p><a href="http://lisagoldman.net/2009/01/07/haniyeh-and-his-israeli-sisters-wartime-tales-from-gaza-and-israel/" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s the first post,</a> written by an Israeli-Canadian journalist who lives in Tel Aviv. It is long but worth reading ALL of it, please.</p>
<p>The second thing I&#8217;d like you to read is <a href="http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054903.html" rel="nofollow">the latest news</a> about how some members of the Knesset want to ban the Israeli Arab parties from participating in elections. This is the kind of thing that drives left of center Jews who love Israel (having lived there by the way), absolutely CRAZY.</p>
<p>It is late and there is always more to say except so few people take the time and effort and stamina to stick with this.  I know, I know.  Just today I was called for comment by The Jewish Week &#8211; a friend who is a professor in NYC didn&#8217;t want to talk to them because he said that he just can&#8217;t care anymore about it &#8211; he is Jewish.</p>
<p>We are responsible for turning off people from engaging in a meaningful way &#8211; and part of the reason for that is the polarization.  We must not allow that to happen &#8211; we must keep bringing it around, not only to the facts and the specifics, but also to the future and reality.  Even people who talk in the lingo &#8220;60 year occupation&#8221; (and often end up going into a push for a one state solution) can often be heard to say that they recognize that Israel isn&#8217;t going anywhere, so there must be an end to the violence.</p>
<p>But people are so afraid.  The region has been so dependent on the threat of violence to keep things in check.  We must replace that threat with trust &#8211; knowing that it&#8217;s difficult is never an adequate response.</p>
<p>Finally, if you didn&#8217;t already read my piece from earlier today, please read it now <a href="http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2009/01/12/hamas-a-fatal-failure-in-leadership-and-a-prize-winning-puppet/" rel="nofollow">(here)</a>- it is about the complete failure of Hamas at leading, which is in fact what it was elected to do.  On that basis alone, Hamas can be seen as not speaking for or acting on behalf of and certainly not acting in the best interests of the Palestinians.</p>
<p>Thank you all for engaging. You can lob the salvos at me now. <img src='http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: davis</title>
		<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2009/01/08/cleveland-public-square-rally-for-israel-11209-12noon/comment-page-1/#comment-195371</link>
		<dc:creator>davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/?p=11817#comment-195371</guid>
		<description>im not sure what you are trying to say. the rally was lead by one of the leaders of the Cleveland Jewish Community. Several Jewish schools had bus loads of people come to the rally. At public square i was able to see the rabbis of most Synagoguse in cleveland.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>im not sure what you are trying to say. the rally was lead by one of the leaders of the Cleveland Jewish Community. Several Jewish schools had bus loads of people come to the rally. At public square i was able to see the rabbis of most Synagoguse in cleveland.</p>
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		<title>By: curious</title>
		<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2009/01/08/cleveland-public-square-rally-for-israel-11209-12noon/comment-page-1/#comment-195364</link>
		<dc:creator>curious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/?p=11817#comment-195364</guid>
		<description>Supporting any country when its doing the wrong thing is a violation of human rights and Israel is as much responsible as Palestine is, you have made it impossible for your own children to live in peace because you harbor anger for each other, you try to justify Israel&#039;s actions but 919 palestinians have died in the pas 16 days, 300 or so were children, what was their crime? you are not bent on stoping terrorism you are bent on destroying the race of Palestinians as a whole, and when you start to be a real Jewish person you may realize that your own religion as well as the Muslim and Christian religions do not support these types of actions. You are becoming a disgrace to your own religions on both sides, you are fighting for land that  DOES NOT BELONG TO ANY OF US, IT IS GOD&#039;S LAND NOT OURS. We die and become the dirt no one can lay claim on a piece of earth and in fact a lot of the land we try to lay claim on we wind up destroying and exploiting, so do the right thing and stop supporting such actions or countries who commit such actions BE A REAL JEWISH PERSON!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Supporting any country when its doing the wrong thing is a violation of human rights and Israel is as much responsible as Palestine is, you have made it impossible for your own children to live in peace because you harbor anger for each other, you try to justify Israel&#8217;s actions but 919 palestinians have died in the pas 16 days, 300 or so were children, what was their crime? you are not bent on stoping terrorism you are bent on destroying the race of Palestinians as a whole, and when you start to be a real Jewish person you may realize that your own religion as well as the Muslim and Christian religions do not support these types of actions. You are becoming a disgrace to your own religions on both sides, you are fighting for land that  DOES NOT BELONG TO ANY OF US, IT IS GOD&#8217;S LAND NOT OURS. We die and become the dirt no one can lay claim on a piece of earth and in fact a lot of the land we try to lay claim on we wind up destroying and exploiting, so do the right thing and stop supporting such actions or countries who commit such actions BE A REAL JEWISH PERSON!</p>
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		<title>By: Sue Simmons</title>
		<link>http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2009/01/08/cleveland-public-square-rally-for-israel-11209-12noon/comment-page-1/#comment-195127</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue Simmons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/?p=11817#comment-195127</guid>
		<description>I would point out that our community....meaning the rest of the democratic world... does not allow religious leaders implore publicly  in this manner lest they risk their tax-exempt status--also the rallies of note were organized by social organizations rather than religious ones.  In a democratic society the distinction is not a small one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would point out that our community&#8230;.meaning the rest of the democratic world&#8230; does not allow religious leaders implore publicly  in this manner lest they risk their tax-exempt status&#8211;also the rallies of note were organized by social organizations rather than religious ones.  In a democratic society the distinction is not a small one.</p>
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